Refutation: ”What will make me a Muslim?”

Question to a non-Ahmadi Muslim friend: “What will make me a Muslim?”

By Peace4EveryNation

Friend, I am puzzled with your answers to my questions. Let me refresh your memory.

According to what you told me:

  • Does reciting the Shahadah make Ahmadis become Muslims? NO.
  • Does praying Salaah make Ahmadis become Muslims? NO.
  • Does paying Zakaah make Ahmadis become Muslims? NO.
  • Does keeping fasts in Ramadan make Ahmadis become Muslims? NO.
  • Does turning to the Qiblah during Salaah make Ahmadis become Muslims? NO.
  • Does eating Halal make Ahmadis become Muslims? NO.
  • Does reading the Qur’an make Ahmadis become Muslims? NO.
  • Does building mosques make Ahmadis become Muslims? NO.
  • Does calling their children by Muslim names make Ahmadis become Muslims? NO.
  • Does praying Tahajjud, Nawaafil and Taraaweeh make Ahmadis become Muslims? NO.
  • Does giving Sadaqah make Ahmadis become Muslims? NO.
  • Does doing Qurbani of cattle make Ahmadis become Muslims? NO.
  • Does celebrating 3aqiqah make Ahmadis become Muslims? NO.
  • Does celebrating the two 3Eids make Ahmadis become Muslims? NO.
  • Does observing the Jumu3ah prayers make Ahmadis become      Muslims? NO.
  • Does calling the Adhaan make Ahmadis become Muslims? NO.
  • Does believing in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers, the Last Day, good and bad destiny, and the resurrection after death make Ahmadis become Muslims? NO.
  • Does believing in Allah and in all His Names and Attributes, and accepting all His commandments and His Shari3ah make Ahmadis become Muslims? NO.

Allah is our Witness that ALL THESE THINGS form part and parcel of our faith. I asked you: Were any of the above-mentioned things, or all of them together, enough to make Ahmadis become Muslims? You said: NO, NO, NO, THAT IS NOT ENOUGH TO BE MUSLIM!!!!

So what, I asked, will make Ahmadis become Muslims?

And you told me: If they believe that “Khatm-al-Nubuwwah” means “no prophet of any kind can come after Muhammad (s.a.) except Jesus the 2000-year-old Israelite prophet,” that will allow Ahmadis to become Muslims!

When I asked you: Which sect of Islam should I join? You told me: Muslims are 99% the same, and they are only divided for political and social reasons.

Once again, your answer puzzled me. Are Muslims really 99% the same?

So, Muslims in Asia who pray to all manner of Saints are 99% the same as Muslims in Saudi Arabia who beat people if they pray at the tomb of Rasulullah (s.a.) because they believe that is Shirk?

So Muslims who say their 5 daily Salaah are 99% the same as Muslims who meditate with music and who think they are above Salaah?

So Muslims who believe the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.) is dead and cannot hear them are 99% the same as Muslims who believe he is HaaDir wa Naadhir, omnipresent and can see all?

Are these social differences? I am puzzled.

You told me that according to the judgment of the scholars of the Sunnis, Shi’ites and Sufis of Pakistan, ALL 72 SECTS THAT THEY BELONG TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO CALL THEMSELVES MUSLIM.

But I do not, you said, have that right. So, I asked you again: What must I do to be accepted as a Muslim?

And you reiterated what you had said before: Believe that there is no prophet of any kind after Muhammad (s.a.) except the Israelite Jesus (pbuh) who was taken up into heaven alive and who will come back down again. If you believe that, it is sufficient to make you Muslim in the eyes of the worldwide Ummah!

And I asked you: Even if I pray to graves? You said: YES, that won’t invalidate your being a Muslim.

Even if I believe in Jinn-possession? You replied: Yes, that won’t harm your claim to be Muslim.

Even if I do the Mut3a “marriage” for one hour? You said: That’s just a minor point. That won’t annul your right to call yourself a Muslim.

Even if I do dhikr instead of Salaah, to the tune of music and with people dancing about like madmen? You said: YES, no problem, you can do all that and we of the other sects will STILL say you have the right to call yourself Muslim…

But all this perplexes me, my friend. For compare what you said to the simple definition of a Muslim according to the Holy Prophet Muhammad (s.a.) – do you even follow him? – It seems extremely doubtful that you prefer what he said over what your “3ulama” have taught you, for you and your leaders never bring his definitions forward when you are asked to define what is sufficient to make a person Muslim. The Prophet (s.a.) said:

“Write down for me [the names of] all those who call themselves Muslim”.
“Whoever prays our Salaah, and faces our Qiblah, and eats what we slaughter, is a Muslim under the protection of Allah and His Messenger.”

And you know, my friend, that we Ahmadis fulfil all these definitions given by the Prophet (s.a.)

My friend, I challenge you to bring a definition of a Muslim from the Qur’an or Sunnah where it is so clearly stated that the defining factor is to believe that Jesus is alive bodily and will come back down, and failure to do so entails that one loses the right to call oneself Muslim.

Why did the Holy Prophet Muhammad (s.a.) not add your scholars’ belief in Jesus (a.s.) coming back bodily, as being the defining characteristic of a Muslim? Was he less wise than the scholars of Islam?

To add to my confusion, you also told me: As long as you are a person who believes that Khatm-un-Nubuwwah means that after Muhammad al-Mustafa s.a., prophethood (even one without any new Shari’a) cannot come but a 2000-year-old prophethood can come, then

  • or if you also believe that the Qur’an contains 5 or 10 or 50 or 500 verses that have been abrogated, you are still a Muslim
  • or if you also believe that you can swear at the first three Caliphs and the holy wives of the Prophet s.a., ridwaanullahi 3alayhim, you are still a Muslim
  • or if you also believe that the Imam al-Mahdi already appeared hundreds of years ago and has gone into hiding, you are still a Muslim
  • or if you also believe that the Qur’an is true when it makes Muhammad s.a. say that he cannot go up to heaven and come back down again because he is only a man and a messenger, but then simultaneously believe that he DID go to heaven physically during his Mi3raaj and then came back down again, you are still a Muslim
  • or if you also believe ‘Ali r.a. shared prophethood with Muhammad s.a., you are still a Muslim
  • or if you also believe in following Imams who swear, curse and do takfir on other Muslims of different sects, you are still a Muslim
  • or if you also believe that you must raise your hands in du3aa after every Salaah, even though the Prophet s.a. did not have this practice, you are still a Muslim

So I am puzzled, my friend. You told me that we Ahmadis can enter ANY GROUP OF ISLAM, however strange their beliefs and practices, just so long as we cease to believe in a non-lawbearing prophet after Muhammad s.a.

And to reinforce your statement, you quoted the Nawa-i-Waqt newspaper published on 10th October 1974, where it declared, regarding the decision of excommunication of al-Ahmadiyyah from Islam, that…

“One of the special aspects of this decision has been that on it the consensus of the Ummah has been reached in a substantially correct manner. Throughout the history of Islam, such an overwhelmingly complete consensus has never been reached on any important topic. Other than the great religious scholars, holders of Shara’, all the political leaders and political leaders of each group have agreed on this consensus. Other than these, all Sufiya-i-kiram, ‘Aarifeen Billah, and the leaders of Tassawuf and such practices had complete agreement. Excluding Qadianis, all the rest of the 72 sects which are considered to be of Muslims, agreed and are happy on the solution of this affair. Among the leaders of the nation and ‘Amaideen, there does not appear to be any group which does not have a joyous attitude regarding this decision. The nation should take notice of this.”

…meaning that ALL of them agreed that every other sect, whatever their despicable beliefs and practices, have EVERY RIGHT TO CONSIDER THEMSELVES MUSLIMS. But because the Ahmadis believe that the Messiah was born a Muslim, AHMADIS CAN NO LONGER BE MUSLIM.

So, my friend, you told me to say: NO PROPHET CAN EVER COME EXCEPT THE ISRAELITE JESUS a.s.

That ONE SINGLE BELIEF will win me the tolerance of today’s Muslims for any unspeakable beliefs, superstitions, Shirk and evil practices I choose to follow, and I shall rightfully be able to call myself a Muslim and all others will also rightfully call me a Muslim!

My friend, to me, this is how you and your people close your eyes on all manner of sin and heinous transgression in your mad, enraged vendetta against Al-Ahmadiyyah.

The prophecy has been fulfilled: 72 have aligned themselves together on one side, and 1 has been kicked to the other side.

The Prophet s.a. said: Of the 73, 72 will be in the FIRE and only 1 will be saved.

Now show me how al-Ahmadiyyah has ever aligned itself with 71 other sects claiming to be of Islam against any 1 sect claiming to be of Islam. If it has, I will leave it.

For I fear the prophecy made by the Holiest of Prophets, Muhammad s.a.

Do you?

I am puzzled, my friend.




51 thoughts on “Refutation: ”What will make me a Muslim?”

  1. It is not for me or you to decide what the truth is. Truth is known to God alone. He knows what is in the hearts and minds of people. To me it appears that all of you – Ahmadis and Non-Ahmadis are playing God.

    The revelation, according to the last sermon of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH stopped with him. Now it is immaterial for me, whether there will be a messiah or not, a reformer or not, it is all of no significance to me. I know what I have to follow. The code of conduct is plain and clear enough for me. I do not need any reformer or messiah or priest or any organization of self-declared righteous people, calling everybody else wrong, to preach. I know what is right and what is wrong. It has come down to me from the time of Adam, to Noah, to Moses, to Jesus to Muhammad.

  2. Dear Brother Khadim, I wasn’t offended in the least, honestly! Thank you for that beautiful passage. It is indeed very appropriate. Jazak Allahu Khayran.

  3. Forgive me if I offended you in any way. That was never my intention. With the current false atmosphere of ‘Ahmadis consider non-Ahmadis kafir’, I only meant for nobody to misinterpret your intention.

    I found this passage which I feel is appropriate here:
    “I shall stand with My Messenger and shall reproach the one who
    reproaches him and shall bestow on thee that which lasts forever. You have
    a rank in heaven and among those who are able to see. We shall show signs
    for you and shall demolish that which they build. They said: Will You place
    therein one who will create disorder? He said: I know that which you do not
    know. I shall humiliate him who designs to humiliate thee. Be not afraid,
    the Messengers are not afraid in My Presence. Allah’s decree has arrived,
    therefore, do not try to hasten it. Good news received by the Prophets. O
    My Ahmad, you are My purpose and are with Me. You are to Me like My
    Unity and My Uniqueness. You have a standing with Me of which people
    have no knowledge. You have a high standing in My Presence. I have
    chosen you for Myself. When you are angry, I am angry, and when you
    love, I love. Allah has preferred you over everything. All praise belongs to
    Allah, Who has made you Messiah, son of Mary. He is not accountable for
    that which He does and they are accountable. This promise was bound to be
    fulfilled. Allah will safeguard you against your enemies and will attack him
    who attacks you. That is because of their disobedience and transgression. Is
    not Allah sufficient for His servant? O mountains and birds, bow down to
    Allah along with him. Allah has decreed: I and My Messengers shall
    prevail. And they after their defeat shall soon be victorious. Allah is with
    those who are righteous and do their duty to the utmost. Those who have
    believed stand firmly on truth in the estimation of their Lord. Peace is the
    word from the Merciful Lord. O guilty ones, this day, stand apart from the
    righteous.” [Tadhkirah]

  4. @Brother Khadim:

    I am not claiming to distinguish that. As I said, my comments are general.

    I don’t believe I’m burning down any entire forest here.
    Also, our aim is not to put an end to snakes or wolves.

    The whole aim of this blog is to expose the misinformation being circulated on our Jama’at and to offer our opponents a chance to realise what it is that they are doing in actual fact.

    As I had said before, only those who already have nobility in their natures will join us. If you study the case of each and every “opponent” who eventually turned Ahmadi, you will find that they were never the ones doing the most vicious propaganda. Of the the latter Allah says:

    “Those who have disbelieved — it being equal to them whether thou warn them or warn them not — they will not believe. Allah has set a seal on their hearts and their ears, and over their eyes is a covering; and for them is a great punishment.”

    So, this blog is sending out true information of Ahmadiyyat, it is dispelling false propaganda on our Jama’at and it is also holding up a mirror for our detractors to see the evil masks they have chosen to wear.

    Those who are good-natured have never been affected by the harsh realities presented to them by Prophets’ communities. They continue to join us from among the most staunchly opposed families from every group in Islam. But they always have some intrinsic goodness in them which prevents them from being among the vicious propagandists and fault-finders, and this is the blessing which allows God’s grace to work on them so that they finally recognise the truth.

    If anyone among our detractors finds the bitter truth about themselves, as it is honestly being shown to them here, off-putting, then that is something they have brought upon themselves. It is a question of dealing warmly with those who have a kindly disposition towards us, and dealing firmly with those who strive to oppose us, and this is intrinsically linked to the Victory of Islam, as it appears clearly in Surah al-Fath (the Victory), Ch 48, verses 29-30:

    “He it is Who has sent His Messenger, with guidance and the Religion of truth, that He may make it prevail over all other religions. And sufficient is Allah as a Witness. Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. And those who are with him are hard against the disbelievers, tender among themselves…”

    It is for Allah to guide, and the victory of Islam will not be affected in the slightest if some of our bitterest enemies do not join us. Firmness is directed towards them, and not towards all. We can only follow this Qur’anic principle, and of course pray that Allah guides one and all to the Truth.

  5. Yes Brother ‘peace4everynation’, but are we really in a position to distinguish between those whose hearts are sealed and those who Allah may guide to a better path? I know the Prophets (peace be upon them) have taken tough approaches with opponents in their lifetimes, but I am a mere servant on my own journey and have no authority. Some of the greatest historical opponents of the Holy Prophet (saw) became memorable champions of Islam. I believe there are similar stories in store for us with members of the cult forum and similar groups. I can’t be the only one who is falling more and more in love with the true Islam when reading all these beautiful arguments. We can’t burn down (with a firey pen) the entire dark forest in trying to put an end to the snakes and wolves. Some opponents might have convinced themselves that their anti-Ahmadi heads can not be penetrated, but we pray that they are pleasantly surprised when Allah melts their hearts.

  6. @Khadim,
    Thank you for your sincere thoughts. We have no issue with the overwhelming majority of Muslims, or non-Muslims for that matter, such as Christians, Hindus, Jews, etc., who are of course good people who just want to live in peace and let others live in peace. We also have no issue with those Ahmadis who are questioning their faith in a decent fashion.

    As for those who, in the style of Iblis, have nothing better to do than fault-finding, abusing, back-biting and/or, in the words of the Open Mubahalah Challenge launched by Hadrat Khalifat ul-Masih IV (r.h.),

    “…those who direct every kind of vile attack against the person of the Founder of the Ahmadiyya Community and falsify all his claims; accuse him of disbelief and lies against God; denounce him as a Dadjaal and an impostor and attribute such false beliefs to him as are not a part of his faith. Secondly: Those who accuse his Community of totally false charges; engage themselves in active propaganda against it; persistently attribute such beliefs to the Community as are not a part of its faith; accuse the present Imam of the Ahmadiyya Community of serious criminal charges and give currency to this character assassination in Pakistan as well as overseas…”,

    with such people we cannot make peace, and invite them to do their worst. These are people who have seen the arguments in favour of the Truth, but persist out of enemity to attack and disparage the holy personages, blessed texts and policies of our Jama’at, in the hope that they can drag others out of the Jama’at with them.

    To such people, the Holy Prophet (s.a.) was commanded by Allah to tell them to join together and try to counter the Qur’an, and even to do their very worst against him – to call down Allah’s CURSE upon whoever is lying.

    Those sincere souls, whether they are genuinely perplexed Ahmadis seeking answers or genuine truth-seekers, are obviously not addressed here. Those addressed are the authors of the cult website and their affiliated websites, channels and blogs, and their wellwishers, who are trying to deceive and ensnare our youth.

    Regarding his Master, the Promised Messiah (a.s.) declared: “How can we compromise with those who use vile language against our Holy Prophet (s.a.) and do not desist from unjustly maligning him. I say truly that I can make peace with snakes and wolves, but not with those who attack my beloved Prophet (s.a.), who is dearer to me than my father and mother.”

    Similarly, we find that even the great Saint, Sahibzada Abdul Latif Shaheed (r.a.) almost beat up a young Arab who was disrespectful to the Promised Messiah (a.s.) in his presence, and would have done so, had the Promised Messiah (a.s.) not held his hand firmly in his own. If these are the feelings of Saints, how can we be “soft” on those people, worse than snakes and wolves, who tear at the one who loved the Prophet (s.a.) more than any other human being on earth?

    This is why I invite them to do their worst. And the worst, theologically speaking, they can do if they truly want to demolish Ahmadiyyat is to prove that Jesus (pbuh) is still physically alive. All their cursing has failed to affect us in any way, and on the contrary has acted like fertiliser for the beautiful tree of Ahmadiyyat, the True Islam.

    Those who are sincere will never join the ranks of the enemies and detractors, and they will understand the reasons why Jesus, Muhammad and the Imam Mahdi (peace be upon them all) sometimes used harsh language when addressing their opponents.

    In view of the viciousness of many of the attacks we are having to endure, I consider the language I have used thus far to be rather benign!

  7. Brother ‘peace4everynation’ should we not take a softer approach in waiting to build bridges between Ahmadis and those who are yet to accept the invitation of the Mahdi and Messiah (as). I say ‘yet’ because I believe that Allah will always leave that door open for anyone who wishes to walk through it (or indeed those who wish to walk through it once again). When one does decide to turn/return to the jama’ah of the the Mahdi and Messiah (as), I hope they feel that we looked upon them with softened hearts during their period of education. I have felt only love for this greater cause from you in all your posts, and I hope everyone else appreciates that too.

  8. My previous post should in fact have been addressed to “Anonymous Ahmadi” and not to “Cylindrical”, although, upon reflection, the substance and tone of their posts is usually quite similar, so it can be addressed to “Anonymous Ahmadi et al”.

    With regard to the allegation made on Ribaa, I think it would be appropriate here to re-read what “ahmadisister” had contributed on another thread:

    ahmadisister on October 7, 2011 at 12:20 am said:

    “Regarding your riba comment, I thought I might bring to your attention, that in fact the non-ahmadi scholars and shuyukh allow interest. (surprised?)
    It is well known that the late Sheikh Tantawi, Shaykh al-Azhar, had issued his opinion about the permissibility of bank interest as a Mufti of Egypt after which he was elevated to the post of Sheikh of Al-Azhar.

    I can provide you with many many quotes and fatawa from Muslim scholars who have allowed the permissibility of riba-based transactions as have the fatwa council based on the concept of daroora. So why does it become an “Ahmadiyya” issue when based on that daroora principle. I think if you studied the Shariah, its maqasid and its rules, you would not come out with such ridiculous statements. The fatawa of the European Council for Fatwa and research state:

    “The problem of housing is pandemic. The council reiterates the prohibition of usury in the Qur’an and that Muslims must find viable alternatives to the problem of house buying. When no viable alternative exists, a Muslim is permitted to buy a house with a conventional mortgage, with the proviso that he is not already a home-owner. The second proviso is that he is not able to purchase it in cash.” Here is the crux of the matter:

    “The basis for this verdict is the legal maxim “necessity permits the prohibited (Q.119), and the maxim “a need is tantamount to a necessity when it is pandemic. the fatwa is further premised on the position of the Hanafi school regarding usury. This is since a Muslim is tasked only with ordering his private affairs when a citizen of a non-Muslim state; he is not required to establish civil, political or economic legislation. Furthermore, renting is dis-empowering whereas Islam aims at the empowerment of a Muslim, materially a well as spiritually” Fatwa 26, Session 2.

    One thing: It is a current theme that I often see: Whenever our beloved Khalifa says anything, non-ahmadis jump at the chance to label him (and us) as kafirs who are going against the Qur’an. But when the non-ahmadis are saying the similar things, everything is hunky dory and they are following on the right path. Ironic, isn’t it? With regards to the interest you are talking about, that does not come into play here as you don’t know what it refers to or means or where it went. You just took a figure off of a line and then spun your own line. If it concerns you that much, write to the Jama’at and ask the question.”

  9. What Islamic source says that a khalifa has to rule over a land? Adam (as) was a khalifa yet he did not rule over any land. In fact, he was thrown out of the garden of Eden. And yet he remained a khalifa through the mercy of Allah. Daud (as) was a khalifa that ruled over the land of Israel, but his being a king did not make him qualified to be a khalifa. Read verse 38:27, where it is said that Daud (as) was made a khalifa, and that he should make his judgements over people with justice. No where is khilafat in the Holy Quran mentioned to be synonomous with ruling over land as a necessity. It has no basis. Either prove it from the Holy Quran and supporting Ahadith or remove the misconception altogether and learn a bit about it before accusing the Huzur of not being who he really is. It is arrogance and I think you should be very careful of that.

    I would say you should at least read Ibn Kathir’s discussion on khilafat and its main emphasis (which does not include land) at the following link:

    I think you should list what policies of the nizam do not agree with Islam and then there can be some progress in the discussion as well. As for the prayers to saints at graveyards, that cannot be emphasized enough – too many Muslims ARE committing a grave error. We have been told not to build places of worship over the graves of saints and prophets, yet with the saints it has happened. Furthermore, what is worse than this is that Muslims call each other kafir all the time and throw it around like it is a common everyday so-called ‘title of shame’. This necessitates one being a kafir when they call another a kafir when they are not one. This is a grave sin.

    You accuse the jamaat of consuming interest, which I have seen no evidence of. Huzur denounced interest in his speeches. He has especially done so with regards to the financial crisis in the world. How could the jamaat system run on interest and survive for one hundred years? What basis is this claim made on? Also, have you considered that Pakistan, is a country in which interest is practised in? And this is the country that outlawed Ahmadiyyat as kafir. So before you make your claim based on some 1974 judgement, then judge for yourself how worthy that proclamation is when pakistan allows alcohol and interest in its country. Why is Pakistan not any more peaceful after 1974 and only in decline while they should have outlawed the ‘kafirs’ and cleansed itself? The fact is, Pakistan has spelled its doom and the people there have to change their attitude and smell the coffee. THEY need to turn Muslim and start accepting Ahmadiyyat before Allah decides to demolish the nation. It is slowly falling apart. This is why Huzur has told Ahmadis to pray for Pakistan.

    So tell me then, who is a true Muslim. The Ahmadi that is commanded to do nawafil fasts and tahajjud prayers especially for Pakistan so as to secure themselves and the country from destruction, or the rest of the Pakistani Muslim population amongst whom there are some of those who spell its ruin leading everyone else into a killing frenzy against each other including killing Ahmadis. Answer yourself that question. It is very evil to call us non-Muslim and tell us to enter Islam while many other Muslims are leaving Islam in large numbers, and here the Muslim world is condemning Ahmadis until they reach the graves forgetting their own problems.

    And you say, ‘May Allah (swt) guide you to Islam’ to us, while we already submit to Him. You have to consider that we Ahmadis are not the fitnah to the rest of the Muslims of the world, it is the few ignorant maulvis who have gained control of the knowledge of most Muslims that have caused the problems. They have hijacked Islam and have made it into a phrase, and deleted all action from it. I say you should pray for guidance from Allah so that He turns you to Him.

  10. In order keep to the topic, I think our non Ahmadi Muslim brothers and sisters ought to look at all the responses that the Ahmadis give for all questions raised and topics discussed. Our emphasis always seems to be on the Quran, Sunnah and Hadith. We generally quote these sources far more than we do the Promised Mesiah (as) and the Khulafa-e-Ahmadiyyat (ra).

    Does that not prove to some extent at least that we are believers in Allah and His Messenger (saw)? With that being the basis for becoming a Muslim, there is no justification for calling Ahmadis non-Muslims.

    Any other reasons given for calling people non-Muslims who profess the Kalima is a ‘bidat’ (innovation) in my opinion. They cannot justify their position from the Quran, Sunnah or Hadith.

  11. @cylindrical: Do you think the Imam Mahdi/Messiah will come when the majority of Muslims are good people, on the right track? No one is sent but at the right time: when the majority is corrupt in their beliefs and practices.

    There can be, and are, good individuals in every sect or group of Islam, just as there are good invididuals in every religion per se. That does not mean that their belief systems are correct.

    As a person who has travelled in the Middle-East and has hundreds of Middle-Eastern, North African, Saharan and Sub-Saharan African, Iranian, Turkish and Turkic, Central Asian, East Asian, South Asian and Malay/Indonesian friends, both Ahmadi and non-Ahmadi, I can tell you that ALL of them hail from Muslim backgrounds having superstitious and unislamic beliefs. A few individuals here and there reject superstition and don’t believe in the fairytale of Jesus (pbuh) in heaven due to their personal reflection on such topics. But their families and sects overwhelmingly continue to hold on to these erroneous creeds, and indeed Jinn-exorcismn and magic are a thriving business in many Muslim countries, and has been implanted in the West (see the Iqra channel programme above).

    I myself come from an Ahmadiyya Jama’at one third of which is of a Shi’ite background, so don’t tell me Shi’ites haven’t been joining. It is true that they are sometimes more rigid than their Sunni/Salafi/Sufi counterparts, but you will find hardended individuals who refuse to re-examine their flawed and illogical beliefs in Jesus (pbuh) in every sect and group.

    People reject the Ahmadiyya interpretation mostly because of the LIES that their Imams and Mashaa’ikh tell on us. Like one of my Afghan friends told me, due to what he had heard about us in his mosque, he used to be ready to kill an Ahmadi if ever he found one. And now that he has come to know the truth about Ahmadiyya Islam, he says, he loves the Promised Messiah (a.s.) Huzur so much that he feels he might kill anyone who speaks against them, and only the true Islamic teaching of love prevents him from doing so. Until Muslims come to know what the Ahmadiyya Movement really is, because of the poison that has been poured into their minds by their Imams, Maulawis and Mullahs, no matter what argument we put forward, it will not be good enough for them. It has nothing to do with the validity of our arguments; it all depends on how poisoned the hearts of the people are by the lies preached by their religious leaders.

    And then, of course, we have that tiny handful of people who hate our Jama’at due to personal grudges; e.g. the entire Lahori Jama’at hates us because of their grudges against the 2nd Khalifa (r.a.) Today, a small number of ex-Ahmadis here and there say they reject our Jama’at for theological reasons, but upon closer examination we find that it is due to personal grudeges. Some are the progeny of weak Ahmadis who, due to shameless backbiting against fellow Ahmadis at home, have turned their offspring against the Nizaam; or some are bitter individuals who lost their case at the Qadha board and refused to accept defeat with good grace; others still are those who behaved indecently and when the Jama’at refused to condone their behaviour and took sanctions against them, they vowed to take revenge one way or another. ALL of these put forward the flimsy plea of theological inconsistencies in Ahmadiyya thought, but they use that as a screen to conceal their very personal grudges against the Nizaam. Nevertheless, they hardly fool anyone, for we Ahmadis know what they have done, so their excuses are vain.

    Anyway, I will re-iterate the point I made earlier. What our detractors should be doing is SOLELY to prove that Jesus (pbuh) is ALIVE in heaven. If they can do that, the whole theology of Ahmadiyya Islam will crumble; conversely, if it is proven that Jesus (pbuh) is DEAD, the theological validity of non-Ahmadi Islam and Trinitarian Christianity crumbles.

    Any other thing that our opponents try to point out can be shown to them a hundred times worse in their own sects and theology. Any apparent weaknesses in our leadership and administration that they attempt to highlight can be highlighted a thousand times worse in their own leadership and administration. What our opponents attack in us are mainly fallacious, evil misrepresentations of what we truly believe and practise. They are champions in creating strawman arguments against us.

    One of these is that Ahmadis don’t believe in Khatm al-Nubuwwah. Another is that the Promised Messiah (a.s.) disrespected Seyyiduna ‘Isa (a.s.). A third is that some of his prophecies were not fulfilled according to the conditions attached. A fourth is that the Ahmadiyya Nizaam brainwashes Ahmadis and misuses their financial contributions. So many lies and concoctions, and yet here you are telling me that Ahmadis are the ones grasping at straws! It is the non-Ahmadis who CREATE straws and then grasp at them!

    I’ve met non-Ahmadis who laugh at how “ridiculous” Ahmadi beliefs are while on their way to see some Imam who can exorcise a jinn out of their daughter. I’ve seen non-Ahmadis laugh their heads off at our highly organised financial contribution system while they themselves hardly pay a penny, let alone Zakaah, to their own Islamic organisations, and their Imams are forever running away with funds meant to build mosques with. I know non-Ahmadis who shamelessly accuse our Khalifa (may Allah strengthen his hand) of having a lavish lifestyle, while they themselves have no moral inhibitions about spending hundreds of pounds/dollars on one single item of clothing or on one haircut, and they are perfectly happy to pray behind those custodians of the Ka’bah whose grossly immoral activities are always being revealed in the world media.

    So, to sum up, a message to all our detractors: Concentrate on demolishing the base of Ahmadiyya thought by proving, once and for all, in the light of the Qur’an and Ahadeeth, that Jesus (pbuh) is alive, 2000 years old, physically sound, in heaven. We have not seen any evidence of this for the last 120 or so years, but here’s your chance, you and your like-minded friends, to have another try.

    And here’s an idea: you and your friends can all get together and create a “THE PROOF THAT JESUS IS ALIVE” blog. Now THAT would be interesting, instead of those boring “cult” blogs.

  12. > So, it is VITAL to get Muslims to abandon all their superstitions and
    > mythical beliefs so that their minds can be freed enough to enable
    > them to recognise the Messiah/Mahdi when he comes as a humble
    > human being born to a woman. Conflating the two issues is a MUST.

    I can’t tell if you actually believe that the reason more Muslims aren’t Ahmadi is because of these sorts of beliefs or if you’re just grasping at straws.

    There are lots of Muslims who don’t do the kinds of things that you describe and *still* want nothing to do with the jama’at.

    > lashing themsleves with swords and knives

    Sure, insult the Shia and then wonder why they don’t want to become Ahmadis. Are you seriously proposing that we insult people into respecting us? [deleted]

    > Conflating the two issues is a MUST.

    Only for you because you seem to want to portray *all* non-Ahmadi Muslims are corrupted and following strange beliefs and practices. As someone who has traveled extensively in the Middle East, I can tell you that this is far from the case.

    Anyway, I reiterate my earlier point: individual beliefs, as corrupted as they may be, cannot be conflated with a claim to Universal Islamic Truth, the kind that we (Ahmadis) are trying to make.

    And, yes, I am Ahmadi. I am also a theist (that is that I believe in God) but very often I find that people on “my side” (Ahmadis and fellow theists of all religions) make terrible “proofs” and “arguments” and that truly saddens me. If we want to claim the “Truth” then we really must do better.

  13. I agree whole heartedly and this brings us to the fundamental problem that exists today in the Muslim world i.e that of completely disjointed exaggerated expectation fron their whole end of times belief system. A number of different schools of thought exist.

    There are groups who will say belief in the Death or raising of Hazrat Isa AS are not fundamental doctrine to make one a muslim or not so will try and steer clear of the whole issue and say “stick to Quran, Sunnah and Hadith” but that only gets us so far and we are back to square one with what or which group to believe and stick to. Again I will re-iterate the very important fact that erroneous views on jinn possession, black magic etc are very prevalent in Muslim Populations. I work with a large innercity Muslim Population and I am yet to come across a single person who does not believe in Evil eye, Jinn possession and black magic, some of these are well educated people. the ones who don’t semm to have dismissed most of their religious thought.

    Most Muslims however do see the dire straits of the Muslim world and do believe Hazrat Isa AS will come at the end of times. Their expectations are exactly what the Jews were expecting i.e the Messiah will usher in a fantastic dawn of Muslim dominance and crush the Western nations etc Their literalistic interpretations of Hadith must be fulfilled to the letter otherwise any claimant is automatically false (a la the Jews). They do not stop and think that the way of Allah has always been to send a humble man born of a woman with his blessed message, and as is always the way he is rejected and villified by the people around him. In the end he is triumphant.

    Un fortunately I think many people including scholars have read Hadith etc about the coming of Hazrat Isa AS (assumed he is therefore alive) then read this back into the Quran which in reality does not support this notion at all. What should have occured is the plain reading of the Quran which states Hazrat Isa AS has passed away should have been the starting point and the the Hadith should be examined in this light which is the error the Promised Messiah AS removed.

    May Allah guide veryone on to the correct path Of the Mahdi and Messiah of Hazrat Muhammad PBUH


    Tiger 123

  14. @Anonymous Ahmadi (Ahmadi??): Conflating Jinn-exorcism and the coming of the Mahdi/Messiah is shoddy pretend-intellectualism?


    When people can be so ignorant and superstitious to believe that Jinns can enter their bodies and harm them, they will be more than ready to believe any other fairytale too, e.g. that a prophet can rise like a rocket into space, live there for two millenia, and then come back down again through the clouds with his hands resting on the shoulders of angels.

    And then, when the REAL event takes place, as it always has in the past – a child is born to a human mother, grows up, is spoken to by Allah SWT and starts to address the people, calling them to the Truth (capital “T”), what happens?

    Those who were gullible enough to believe in the benefits of Jinn-exorcism, or of intercession of dead saints, or of slashing themsleves with swords and knives, or of dancing until falling into a trance, WILL BE UNABLE TO RECOGNISE THE ONE SENT BY ALLAH SUBHANAHU WA TA’AALA. They will be totally unable to reconcile the Truth with their own warped, fairytale reality.

    So, it is VITAL to get Muslims to abandon all their superstitions and mythical beliefs so that their minds can be freed enough to enable them to recognise the Messiah/Mahdi when he comes as a humble human being born to a woman. Conflating the two issues is a MUST.

    If you can’t see that, then that alone should tell you how far your “intellectualism” goes.

  15. > You don’t ever condemn Jinn exorcism practised by
    > Salafis, Sunnis and others.

    There is a serious difference between “Jinn exorcism” and belief that the Messiah and Mahdi has come and it is a huge huge dishonesty to pretend otherwise.

    One is a private act that is (in our opinion) a misunderstanding of one aspect of the faith but one that makes *no* Universal claims to Islamic Truth (capital “T”). On the other hand, believing that the Mahdi has come and believing in the subsequent “political” structure of the jama’at and the interpretations and so *does* make Universal claims on *all* Muslims everywhere.

    Conflating the two is the height of shoddy pretend-intellectualism and is only done to win cheap political points. It does not contribute to serious discussion.

  16. My dear Cylindrical, Assalamu alaikum

    I think we can get into as much verbosity about ours and your beliefs as we want (and so far you have blatantly ignored all requests to explain your own beliefs which you cannot deny). But at the end of the day we all know that Allah Almighty exists and is always there for us…that’s the whole reason for praying constantly to Him throughout the day and night right? So my question is, have you personally ever benefited from believing in Islam, if so what has that benefit been other than having a social circle of like minded people?

    By following the Quran and Sunnah how has that changed your life for the better? We are asked to pray at least 5 times a day. How has praying provided you personally any benefit…and if it has, can you explain how we can also benefit?

    At the end of the day the whole purpose of following any Muslim group is because they claim to help us enhance our relationship with the Almighty…that’s the only reason for us wanting to follow the Imam Mahdi (as) and join his Jama’at because we feel that his advice has enabled our relationship to develop with Allah Ta’ala.

    Tell me, and think about this sincerely, have you ever stepped out in front of Allah on a humble pray mat and have your heart melt with the realisation that there is no god but Allah? that He is the only One with control over all affairs and that we are merely creatures with no power? Have you ever cried in your prayers, begging for mercy for the forgiveness of all your sins, big or small…especially those sins that no one else know about? If the answer is no, then what are you calling us to? I’m not too bothered with all these arguments…as long as I am able to develop a further realisation of the existence of Allah by staying with the Jama’at then that’s what matters at the end of the day. It is all a means to an end after-all…that end is Allah. By disbelieving in the Promised Messiah (as) you are not showing us how we will find Allah…tell us how to find Allah and maybe then we will start listening. Stop trying to beat us in debates, and start trying to reform our relationship with Allah Ta’ala if you truly are a well-wisher…the first step for you must always be to pray for us…have you ever sincerely done that?

  17. @cylindrical: Check out this article comprising a forceful rebuttal by the Ahl-al-Sunnah to the rejection by Wahhabis/Salafis of the Sunni concept of tawassul (seeking help through the intercession of dead saints and prophets) and tabarruk (seeking help through relics of holy people). A long list of books written by Sunni ‘Ulama is also provided. You cannot continue to rattle on about saint worship being a negligeable fact in Muslims of today. It is a widespread issue.

    However, in the final analysis, why do you even care whether Ahmadis have a Khalifa who does not rule over any land, or supposedly “consume interest”, or take sanction against those who flaunt the rules and etiquettes laid down by their Nizaam?

    All you are really interested in is getting Ahmadis to believe that no prophet can come except the Israelite prophet Jesus (pbuh). Once we start believing that, you will leave us alone. You don’t ever condemn Jinn exorcism practised by Salafis, Sunnis and others. You don’t condemn them for using interest, and no Islamic banks can save themselves 100% from interest in the present world capitalist climate that they are functioning in. But you never condemn them. You don’t chase after Shi’ites or Sufis for all their innovations, such as slashing themselves with knives or falling into trances by dancing. You don’t create websites or blogs decrying and exposing the lavish lifestyles of Saudi and other Muslim rulers. You and your friends aren’t disturbed enough by all that to challenge them, are you?

    What you guys are enraged by is only how come Ahmadis refuse to believe that the only prophet who can come is the Jewish prophet Jesus (pbuh). As soon as we start believing that, you will have no issue with us anymore, and your blogs and websites will then be of no further use – so why do you keep rattling on about other issues such as chanda, interest, marriage sanctions, Sahih Ahadeeth, etc? All those become non-issues as soon as we believe your fairytale story of Jesus going up to the sky and coming back down again. Then we, like all the Sunnis, Shi’ites and Sufis out there, will be free to follow all manner of horrendous innovations, beliefs and practices, and no one will create a “cult” website to condemn us.

    Well, here’s news for you: We Ahmadi Muslims will NEVER believe in your mythical Jesus tale. NEVER.

    The Qur’an has pronounced Jesus (pbuh) DEAD. And that verdict will be held on to by Ahmadi Muslims until the Last Day, Insha Allah. To change our minds, you will have to change the Qur’an – and that, you will be unable to do.

    So all your efforts are in vain. You should grow up and get over your unhealthy obsession with trying to make Ahmadi Muslims let go of the Qur’anic verdict on Jesus (pbuh)’s death to instead accept your childish story of a prophet rising physically to heaven and coming back down to earth again.

    You cannot change our certitude or our Imaan. Get over your obsession with us and go and try to reform the Sunnis, Salafis, Shi’ites and Sufis out there. You have a lot of work ahead of you. And you can start by addressing the issue of how your “majority” should deal with the lifestyle of debauchery, drinking, nightclubbing, despicable luxury and sexual misdemeanours of the family members of the custodians of the Ka’bah, and why they aren’t using their God-given wealth to really fight poverty in the Muslim world. Once you and your fellow cultees have succeeded in doing da’wah to the Saudi ruling family – the custodians of the holiest sites of Islam and the organisers of the Hajj of the entire Muslims world – and bringing them and their progeny back to Islamic moral behaviour, then come back to us in a few years’ time to check whether we have changed our minds about Jesus (pbuh) in the meantime.

    I wouldn’t hold my breath though, if I were you…

    May Allah SWT save you from the Islam of Jinn-exorcism of the Salafis, saint-intercession of the Sunnis, ta’ziyyah body-slashing of the Shi’ites and dance-induced trances of the Sufis.

    May Allah SWT guide you to the true Islam of the Imam Mahdi (a.s.). Ameen.

  18. AA

    There is no need to be rude, in no way was my comment a rant, I was clearly replying to your comment.
    “And yet no one would stop a sunni Muslim boy from marrying a shia Muslim girl or vice versa. I am infact aware of a couple of sunni/shia marriages. It’s unusual but not unheard of. ”

    I also wanted to bring to your attention that your statement here is untrue : “The point is that from a theological point of view there is nothing stopping them from getting married.”
    According to your own Scholars Sunni and Shia marriages are strongly discouraged and encouraged to separate even if they are married.

    Just remember:
    “He knows the treachery of the eyes and that which the minds conceal.” (40:20)

    “and whoever initiates in Islam an evil practice, will carry its burden and the burden of everyone who acts in that way , without diminishing in anyway the burden of the latter.” (Muslim)

    I hope InshaAllah you wake up to the truth one day and have an opportunity to beg Allah for forgiveness.

    Allah knows best.


  19. Tawassal or Shafa’ah (intersession) in which a person calls upon the deceased person in the grave, generally a Wali Allah, is by no means practiced by a small minority. I would argue that you either do not know much about your own brethren, or are trying to mislead everyone. Similarly, the belief that the Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) is still alive in his blessed qabr sharif and journeys the earth during the day is also not an uncommon belief. If it is, then I guess the Brelavis, naqshbandis and other Sufi groups represent a minority of South Asia. I guess the millions who carry out this practice at the various shrines across Pakistan, such as that of Hadrat Data Sahib (ra), are also a minority.

    I answer to your question, no – grave worshiping Muslims do not add or take away from the claim of Hadrat al-Imam al-Mahdi (‘alayhi al-salam). I will ask rehan to join us here as he has clearly shown that the Pigott prophecy is not as you have said.

    You take a literal interpretation of what the Mahdi and Messiah must do upon his arrival and we, for the most, take much to be metaphor. On the refutations pages I have listed, in some detail may I add, many, well actually just a few, of the many prophecies of Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (‘alayhi al-salam) which came true. What happened? How did a person you believe to be false have countless prophecies fulfilled?

    Ka’ab b. Malik incident does apply and so do countless others. Hadrat Abu Bakr (radi Allahu ‘amhu) famously said that he made, I believe, some 60 things forbidden for himself which were in fact halal – and that was because such a position advanced his iman. And if in fact we are wrong, then please show me how the non-Ahmadi Muslim community is different in how it treats intermarriages? Furthermore, look at my previous post on Qadiani marriages and you will clearly see the fatwa by the ‘Ulema on Muslims being strictly forbidden from taking Ahmadis as their wives or husbands. You simply don’t have a leg to stand on. As the previous poster aptly said, you are throwing stones from a glass house.

  20. @Cylindrical Salam

    Where is this world you live in where Muslims are this tight bunch who all inter marry and live happily. This is taken from my local mosque website:

    In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

    A:) The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) himself explained that the primary consideration in choosing a spouse should be their Deen.

    In a Hadith recorded by many Hadith scholars, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:

    “A woman is married for four reasons, her wealth, lineage, status and Deen. Choose the one who is religious.” (Sahih al-Bukhari)

    This also applies to women, in that a man is married for four reasons.

    “Deen” is a very comprehensive word. It does not only mean praying and fasting. Rather, it relates to one’s entire conduct of life.

    Therefore, it covers:

    1) Belief (Aqidah)

    2) Outward worship (Ibadaat)

    3) Good character and manners (Akhlaq)

    4) Good dealings with others (Mu’amalaat)

    5) Turning to Allah in all affairs (Suluk)

    Therefore, the first and foremost thing that should be considered before marrying someone is their religious belief and conduct of life.

    With regards to marrying a Shi’a man, firstly, it should be understood that there are two types of Shi’as.

    a) Those who hold beliefs that constitute disbelief (kufr), such as having the belief that the Qur’an has been altered, Sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him) is God, the angel Jibril made an error in descending with the revelation on the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) rather than Sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him), accusing Sayyida Ai’isha (Allah be pleased with her) of committing adultery or denying the Companionship (suhba) of Sayyiduna Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him).

    The great Hanafi jurist, Imam Ibn Abidin (Allah have mercy on him) states:

    “There is no doubt in the disbelief (kufr) of those that falsely accuse Sayyida Ai’isha (Allah be pleased with her) of adultery, deny the Companionship of Sayyiduna Abu Bakr ( Allah be pleased with him), believe that sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him) was God or that the angel Jibril by mistake descended with the revelation (wahi) on the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give peace), etc… which is apparent Kufr and contrary to the teachings of the Qur’an.” (Radd al-Muhtar, 4/453)

    Therefore, Shi’as who hold such beliefs are without doubt out of the fold of Islam.

    b) Those who do not hold beliefs that constitute Kufr, such as believing that Sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him) was the rightful first Caliph after the demise of the Messenger of Allah, belief in the twelve Imams, etc…

    Such Shi’as cannot be termed as out of the fold of Islam, rather they are considered to be severely deviated and transgressors (fisq).

    Imam Ibn Abidin states:

    “It is difficult to make a general statement and judge all the Shi’as to be non-believers, for the scholars have agreed on the deviation and defection of the deviated sects.” (ibid)

    It should be remarked here that some members of the Shi’a community display outwardly not to have believes that constitute Kufr, but keep these beliefs in their heart, which they call Taqiyya.

    The case with such people is that if they did hold beliefs that constitute Kufr in their heart but outwardly denied them, then even though according to Allah and in the hereafter they will be regarded as non-Muslims, but we will judge them according to their outward statements and actions.

    The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) is reported to have said: “I have been ordered to judge people according to their outward condition.”

    Keeping the above in mind, it becomes clear that marrying Shi’as that are not considered Muslims is out of the question. If one was to marry such a person, the marriage (nikah) would be invalid.

    Shi’as that are not considered to be out of the fold of Islam are still regarded to be severely deviated, thus marriage with them also should never be considered, although the Nikah will be valid. This becomes more important when the case is of a Sunni Muslim girl marrying a Shi’a boy, as the affect this can have on the wife and children may be detrimental.

    In conclusion, the decision you made not to marry a Shi’a boy is correct indeed. It could have long term damages with regards to your beliefs and your children’s beliefs. There are many Sunni practicing pious brothers you could get married to. May Allah bless you with a pious and caring husband.

    Please stop holding up Ahmadiyyat Islam to some ridiculously contrived impossible standard which exists no where in The Muslim world or in the History of Islam.



  21. My post formed a coherent argument, you seem to be all over the place.

    Grave worshipping is done by a tiny minority in Southeast Asia. Ahmadiyya projects this shirk onto the whole Ummah as if every Muslim is guilty of it. That is a gross exaggeration. Not everything is done by everyone.

    What I am trying to say is the following (and I will rephrase it since the moderator deleted it from my previous post): how do the wrongs of the Ummah prove Ahmadiyya right? Does grave worshipping in some parts of Pakistan make Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s claim true? What about his failed prophecies (Pigott for example)? Do they suddenly become true? And the fact that he hardly fulfilled any of those things that the Imam Mahdi and Masih were supposed to do? You people use these stories about grave worshipping etc. as a shield to hide from the inconsistencies in your own beliefs.

    And once it has been established that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was in fact not the Imam Mahdi (or the Masih or a Prophet), does it matter what you are going to believe after that? Anything would be better than following such a person. But the Prophet (SAW) has already told us what to do: stick to the majority.

    The story of Ka’ab ibn Malik does not apply here. Ahmadis are kicked out and boycotted for marrying non-Ahmadi Muslims, a right granted to them by Allah (SWT). Ka’ab ibn Malik was punished by Allah (SWT) in a life and death situation. He was essentially a deserter in a war. How does that even compare to not paying your chanda or marrying a Muslim?

    Regarding the 14th century prophecy: Mirza Ghulam did say sahih ahadith, did he not? Why do you accuse us of immoral behaviour when we simply ask you to show us these sahih ahadith? If you cannot find them well… that should give you another hint regarding the truth of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

    I will not bother with the rest of your post as it is again what I said above: a shield. Just one or two things: the quote from Dare Qutni is not a hadith, and your Jamaat can easily avoid ribaa by using Islamic banking accounts. Your excuses are invalid.

  22. @cylindrical: You accuse our Jama’at of going beyond discouraging and resorting to punishment and boycott, and when I point out to you that all the other groups of Islam officially approved and recommended all Muslims do far worse than that, you call it a rant! That’s rather disingenuous, don’t you think?

    I say this in the nicest possible way, given the circumstances: you seem to be always looking for the straw in your brother’s eye, whereas you are blind to the whole rafter in your own.

    What’s this about us not being able to justify any of our Nizaam’s policies with Qur’an and Sunnah? Where has this come from suddenly?

    You want an instance of a total boycott imposed by the Holy Prophet (s.a.) on Muslims in Medina? Go and look up the story of Ka’b ibn Malik (r.a.) and his two companions, with reference to the expedition of Tabuk. For the simple reason of having procrastinated and failed to prepare for that expedition, a full boycott was imposed on them, and even their wives were told to stop communicating with them. The Prophet (s.a.) refused to reply to their salaam, and so did all other Muslims. The Prophet (s.a.) demonstrated that the administration of an Islamic Jama’at has every right to take sanctions against those who flout its rules of obedience and morality. Will you say the Prophet (s.a.) also behaved like a cult leader, by imposing such an absolute boycott on his Sahaba? God save us from the very thought.

    However, these three were still considered to be Muslims, despite the boycott. And that is why, we Ahmadi Muslims, if ever one of our members has been expelled for bad behaviour, still consider him/her to be Ahmadi Muslims by faith. They are, however, no longer part of the Nizaam, or organisation of the Jama’at.

    So, in the light of the above, what’s this about our Jama’at keeping a “tight grip” on our lives? Don’t you know we Ahmadis have united around the Imam Mahdi (a.s.) in order to help him with our wealth, our time, our honour, and, if need be, our lives? We have pledged to obey him and to obey anyone who is his successor. We have pledged to obey his orders to live Islamic lives to the best of our abilities and we pray everyday that Allah SWT may help us to do so. We do not want to behave hypocritically, and say we have obeyed the order of the Prophet (s.a.) to swear allegiance to the Imam Mahdi (a.s.), only to then go on to lie, slander, commit adultery and live our lives like non-Muslims do.

    We are thankful to Allah SWT that we have a Jama’at that helps us to remain on the straight and narrow. We are happy that we are not left to our own devices like so many other Muslims are, in their temptations to sin and live hypocritical lives, having no authority to urge them to reform themselves. Those Ahmadis who prefer to live double lives are welcome to go join the ranks of those Muslims who are too proud to obey the authority bequeathed to us by the Holy Prophet Muhammad (s.a.).

    The Prophet (s.a.) never said: “Be with the majority!” This is a fallacy and a mistranslation of the word “Jama’ah”. He said to be with the Jama’ah. And his Jama’ah can NEVER unite upon error.

    Hopefully, a post will soon be coming to discuss WHO represents the true Jama’ah of Muhammad (s.a.) today. Then perhaps people will reflect a bit more on the true situation prevailing in the Islamic world these days.

    You can reflect on your understanding of Khilafah with reference to this post:

    I don’t see how we Ahmadi Muslims exaggerate the grave Shirk being practiced, the superstitions, the shameful innovations and the ridiculous beliefs of Muslims around the world today. If anything, all I have ever seen on the “cult blog” is that these glaring facts are played down in a very exaggerated fashion to the point of intellectual dishonesty. All these grave practices and beliefs are swept under the carpet in order to support the fallacious view that all Muslims – barring Ahmadis – constitute an enormous, quasi-homogeneous Ummah, that all is hunky-dory, and that the problems are only with the Ahmadis. Here, once again, you have tried to play down the horrendous practices and beliefs of Muslims. You should have been watching our live Arabic programmes Al-Hiwar al-Mubashar, hosted by Arab Ahmadis, where they have pointed out the serious flaws in beliefs and practices of Salafis, Shi’ites and others, and spoken openly on air to Sheikhs of these sects, quoting from their own books. What you call “exaggeration” is in fact a sad reality.

    You have chosen to misunderstand what the Imam Mahdi (a.s.) said about his coming in the 14th Century. He did not believe anything other than what Muslim religious leaders of his time believed, based on what the Salaf had written. All the signs for the coming of the Mahdi and Messiah clearly pointed to the 14th Century Hijri, and many of these signs are found in Ahadeeth which even by your own standards are Saheeh. You, on the other hand, are behaving exactly like those Jews and Christians who challenge Muslims to show them where it is mentioned in the Torah and Gospels the signs of the Muslims which are spoken about in the Qur’an, 48:30 (48:29 if you don’t count the basmalah as 1st verse). These texts do not exist verbatim in either the Torah or the Gospels. However the signs are metaphorically mentioned. But that isn’t good enough for the Jews or Christians, is it? So they mock at the Qur’an, accusing it of containing lies. Similarly, when the Imam Mahdi (a.s.) says that Saheeh Ahadeeth clearly mention that the Messiah would come in the 14th Century, you too demand the reference from us, word for word, in the same childish, disrespectful way, as do the Jews and Christians from the Qur’an.

    But then, even in your behaviour, a prophecy of Muhammad al-Mustafa (s.a.) is fulfilled: that a time would come when Muslims would ressemble Jews like two shoes of a same pair. So, some of you, the opponents of the Imam Mahdi (a.s.), are bound to behave in exactly the same way as the Jews did.

    The eclipse Hadith is in al-Dar Qutni, Vol I:
    “For our Mahdi there are two Signs which have never occurred before since the creation of the heavens and the earth, namely, the moon will be eclipsed on the first night in Ramadhan (i.e., on the first of the nights on which a lunar eclipse can occur) and the Sun will be eclipsed on the middle day of Ramadhan (i.e., on the middle day on which a solar eclipse can occur) and these Signs have not happened since the creation of the heavens and the earth.”

    The so-called comsumption of interest has already been dealt with, and you obviously missed it. No Islamic organisation or banking system on earth is entirely free from interest, as has been readily admitted by Muslim banking experts. I myself watched an Arabic programme on Iqra channel where Sheikh Saleh Abdullah Kamel, chairman of the General Council for Islamic Banks, himself clearly explained this fact which is ignored by Muslims in general.

    Ahmadi Muslims do not personally consume interest, but instead use interest given by the bank solely for the propagation of Islam, on the premise that interest is forbidden to individuals. That is not entirely the same as ribaa, or usury. The Ahmadiyya Jama’at does not loan out money and then demand interest upon repayment of the loan. Such interest would indeed be ribaa.

    All our practices and beliefs stand on solid Qur’anic principles and the Sunnah of the Prophet (s.a.). On the other hand, many of the practices and beliefs of other Muslims can be proven to be not only outside the Sunnah but contrary to the Holy Qur’an, such as praying to dead saints for favours, Jinn-possession, raising of the hands in du’aa after every Salaah, etc. Watch this programme and try not to laugh:

    Talk about living in a glass house and throwing stones! You stand on extremely precarious ground, yet you come here to attack our Nizaam, the Nizaam that refuses to condone the lewd unislamic behaviour of the disobedient ones.

  23. I’m sorry, but how does your rant refute any of the points that I have made? You claim to be Muslims, the true Islam, the saved sect, so Ahmadiyya will of course be judged according to Quran and Sunnah.

    The very fact that you are unable to justify ANY of your nizams policies with Quran und Sunnah should ring the alarm bells for you. This whole concept of the Jamaat is unislamic. A khalifa who doesn’t rule any land and cannot, therefore, enforce the sharia, a nizam that keeps a tight grip on peoples lives, chanda, kicking out, punishing people for making use of their God-given rights – how is that Islam?

    The reason why I keep pointing these things out for you is to show you that Ahmadiyya is NOT Islam! These practices and rules and regulations are not from Islam, they are the hallmarks of cults.

    Once it has been established that you are in fact a member of a cult [deleted] does it matter what other Islam you are going to follow? Anything is better than following someone who [deleted]. But to make the choice easier for you, the Prophet (SAW) has given us guidance on who to follow: the majority. These are not my words so don’t come with the ‘majority fallacy’. These are the word of the Prophet (SAW) himself!

    You Ahmadis always grossly exaggerate stories about grave worship etc. to make yourself feel better and feel validated in your beliefs. You use these stories as a shield so that you don’t have to examine your own beliefs. The thinking behind that is, that those pople are so bad, that we can’t possibly be wrong!

    But none of that makes [deleted] go away. Where are the sahih ahadith about the promised messiah coming in the 14th century? Where is the hadith about the eclipse prophecy? Why does your Jamaat consume interest and, therefore, wages war against Allah (SWT) and His Messenger (SAW)? [deleted] These are the questions that matter.

    May Allah (SWT) guide you to Islam.

  24. AA

    I’m sorry Brother (cylindrical) I’m afraid what you have stated is untrue.
    It maybe due to the fact that you are unaware such situations.
    Marriages amongst Sunni and Shia are strongly discouraged, I know of many that think this way and it’s not just 1 or 2.
    Families have been torn apart over this topic, because the main issue that arises is how the couple will bring up their children. There have been instances of discouragement between Pakistani Sunnis and Iranian Sunnis, simply because the Iranian Sunni may have been from a Shia bloodline.
    If the family is extremely liberal then they won’t have a problem with sect and sometimes religion altogether.

    You have to be honest here, yes some families may agree to the marriage under the realisation that the couple will go ahead and marry against their parents will anyway.
    You can’t turn a blind eye to what happens in your own sect; the person out of the two who is strongest in their belief will always have their way in religious matters. So how is that justice to the other person? And if by chance they both give up on their faith, how is that fair for the children? They will grow up so confused and that is something I have seen.


  25. This isn’t about who is who as simply titles. Would you marry a Shia who thinks that Ali Ibn Abi Talib (ra) should have been the Prophet of Islam instead of Prophet Muhammad (saw)? If rumours such as this belief were true (I do not know if they are true or not about Shias, so I am not making any assumptions here) then that would mean that you have married someone who does not esteem the Holy Prophet (saw) as he should be.

    Think of it this way, if someone who is Muslim drinks or eats pork (not naming any groups, since this is common in every group with those who are corrupt in their deen) then would you marry that person? Would you even marry someone who smokes? You know, the whole idea is that you will raise children who are to become Muslims who will worship Allah and esteem Him as He should be esteemed. That is our goal. If someone rejects the Imam Mahdi, then that is a grave error that they have made. Would you not want a spouse who will love the Holy Prophet (saw) and not think of going against what he said? That is the same as not going against what Allah says and tells us to do. Therefore, if he told us to obey Imam Mahdi, then obey Imam Mahdi. If someone does not obey him as we are told to do, then we cannot expect that that same person will follow everything in Islam to the full extent that it needs.

    Remember that the Imam Mahdi has come, and he has explained Islam as it needed to be explained without errors. Scholars in the past DID make errors. As much as I esteem many of the classical scholars, they do have mistakes in their works. But when someone comes along who has the characteristics of the Holy Prophet (saw), then how can we go astray? This is the way to properly follow the Holy Prophet (saw), and that is to follow Imam Mahdi who also shares the characteristics of Jesus (as). The Holy Prophet (saw) said that how can his ummah go astray when he is at one end and Jesus (as) is at the other? This means that you must accept him or face the fact that you might be doing certain things wrong in your deen because a scholar made a mistake and you didn’t know it. Think about that and then remember your first obligations as a Muslim. It is absolutely a must to accept the Imam Mahdi. Everyone knows this.

  26. I wish to reply to this. We Ahmadis do not make arguments complex at all. Its rather simple, the Imam Mahdi came and was a prophet of God, the argument becomes complex only when we are asked to explain further, then explain further, then explain reply upon reply. That is why arguments become complex on our part. We try and address all issues as much as we can whenever we can. This is normally because of the lack of opportunity to speak to the general Muslim population without being labelled and misjudged right off the bat. Its to remove all possible misconceptions by the rest of the Muslims on us. You will notice this when you read our explanations of our stances on Islam. They are replies to questions and objections raised often and in various ways. The argument becomes complex over time.

    Furthermore, only those are Ahmadi if they follow the rules which are laid down by Hazrat Masih-e-Maud (as). Immoral behaviour in general is also a reason to be kicked out of the jamaat. It is not a simple matter to remove someone from the jamaat without sufficient proof anyways, unless there is a corrupted office holder – which can happen and in fact does happen sometimes. But this is why everything ultimately rests with Allah.

    Furthermore, the nizam is there to enforce these rules. An Ahmadi is an Ahmadi because they follow Islam strictly by trying their utmost to follow Islam wholeheartedly, acting according to the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (saw) and then following the specific criteria which makes one Ahmadi. These are many, but the very outward ones of marrying someone who denies a prophet of Allah, or behaving immorally and even financial corruption are just three of the reasons why someoen is kicked out of the jamaat. It is a privilege to be an Ahmadi because one’s actions must be in accord with it. These reasons are serious matters which may corrupt generations, or many people, or may become a very bad example to others in the jamaat. Bad examples of behavior do occur in the jamaat, and I in fact wish that no one remain in it who is outwardly evil in any form. It would be great if only those were left who only struggled with their lower selves and try hard to subdue it as well as encourage others to do so. But that is not the case, so sometimes people have to be removed.

  27. I disagree. It is unthinkable amongst the majority of the non-Ahmadi Muslim community that A sunni would marry a Shi’a or a Shi’a a Sunni. To say otherwise goes against everything I have seen and heard for many years. They do intermarry occasionally, but then so do Ahmadi Muslims with non-Ahmadi Muslims.

    The second point you have made is very unfair and an interpretation rather than a balanced representation of what I wrote. I had a friend who had a habit of swearing which is of course against the teachings of Islam. Each time he swore he committed an open sin. Alhamdulillah, I do not swear intentionally. It does not follow that I believe I am better than my friend. You extracted that conclusion on the basis of your own vision of me as an Ahmadi and not on the basis of objectivity. Your evaluation of me was full of bias. You did not have Husn al-Zann.

    Lastly, you cannot possible claim that I am wrong in saying that if the Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) instructed that a Muslim should offer his or her bay’at to the Imam al-Mahdi and they do not, that they have committed an error. It is offensive to the words Islam and Muslim to say so. My conclusion was that such an act would clearly amount to disobedience. I did not say that that means I am better than the person who denies the Imam Mahdi (‘alayhi al-salam). What if I do not pray, or refuse to pay Zakat? You extracted another inference subjective to your particular vision of ”The Ahmadi View.”

    I would never ever choose to marry a child of mine to a person who openly admitted that he or she chose to disobey an instruction of the Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam). Be they Ahmadi or not Ahmadi, that is the measuring stick. Despite such disobedience, I do not have any opinion in the depths of my heart as to who is better or worse. My heart does not have the capacity to proclaim that someone is less of a Muslim than me and it is of no interest to me to do so.

  28. @cylindrical: You seem rather bothered by the fact that Ahmadis have accepted to respect rules set down by the Nizaam of the Ahmadiyya Jama’at. You cannot promise to obey an organisation and then flaunt its rules according to your own whims. If people were allowed to do whatever they pleased, soon the Jama’at would have to put up with people who choose to cheat on their wives and who don’t care if it’s public knowledge. You can’t force the Nizaam to bow down to your wishes every time you are infatuated with someone and entertain illicit and unislamic relationships with that person.

    You wrote: “Discouraging is one thing, punishing people, kicking them out of the Jamaat, boycotting them is totally different.”

    Then surely you have just disagreed with the entire Muslim world. You must certainly have read this somewhere:

    “They must be declared non-Muslims and ousted from the fold of Islam, and be barred from entering the Holy Lands.
    There must be no dealings with the Qadianis. They must be boycotted socially, economically and culturally. Neither must they be married [to Muslims] nor must they be allowed to be buried in Muslim graveyards, and they should be treated like other non-Muslims.
    All Muslim countries must impose restrictions on the activities of the followers of the claimant of Prophethood Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani; they must declare them a non-Muslim minority and must not entrust them with any post of responsibility in any Muslim country.”

    Depriving people of their right to be Muslims, kicking them out of the fold of Islam, boycotting them socially, economically and culturally, barring them from being able to marry Sunni or Shi’a Muslims, barring them from even being buried in Muslim graveyards, and barring them from posts of responsibility…

    This is the PUNISHMENT and BOYCOTT to be meted out to all Ahmadis, agreed upon by all Muslim nations and groups at the April 1974 World Muslim League conference in Saudi Arabia.

    So: “Discouraging is one thing, punishing people, kicking them out of the Jamaat, boycotting them is totally different.” Now will you like to explain how it’s ok for the entire Muslim world to mete out such punishments and boycott to those they think have broken their “rules”?

  29. And yet no one would stop a sunni Muslim boy from marrying a shia Muslim girl or vice versa. I am infact aware of a couple of sunni/shia marriages. It’s unusual but not unheard of. The point is that from a theological point of view there is nothing stopping them from getting married.

    In Ahmadiyya however punishment is inflicted on anyone marrying a Muslim, especially without the permission of the nizam (for which there is no islamic justification whatsoever). Discouraging is one thing, punishing people, kicking them out of the Jamaat, boycotting them is totally different. I’m afraid you’re

    You are saying that Anonymous Ahmadi is simplifying things. Well Islam is simple, only AHmadiyya needs complex arguments to explain its stance. That should give you a hint.

  30. > Yet, it would be unthinkable for me to accept the marriage
    > of a child of mine to, let’s say, a Shi’ah

    Exactly, unthinkable for *you* (and for me) because of the structure of the jamaat. Regardless of that fact, there are lots of Sunni/Shia intermarriages. Lots of them don’t feel that same level of apprehension that you’re describing (some do, obviously, but *lots* don’t).

    > On the second issue, I would not marry a child of mine to someone
    > who consciously disobeyed any command of the Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi
    >wa sallam) and neither would his blessed Companions (radi Allahu ‘anhu).

    Again, you’ve given the game away. Clearly then we (or at least you) feel that non-Ahmadi Muslims *are* disobedient and therefore are at least “lesser” Muslims (if, admittedly, not “non-Muslims”). The difference now becomes one of degree and not of kind. In other words: we *are* applying a double standard.

    So despite a non-Ahmadi doing *everything* that you described above (Zakat, Hajj, …) he *still* wouldn’t be good enough for you. Why oh why do you think that they should consider us good enough for them?

  31. Very Cogent Reply. Indeed everyone who says the Shahadah is a Muslim however one has to look a little deeper at their views and righteousness whether they Be Ahmadi Muslim (some bad ones out there), Sunni, Shia etc. A Sunni Muslim would never give his daughter in Marriage to A Shia man who openly declares Hazrat Abu Bakr AS usurped the Khilafat etc whilst as far as I am aware he would still consider him Muslim in a nominal fashion as he does most of the above list. Our position ought to be similar in that we consider all to be fellow muslims as they have done shahaddah and follow the above list but given their views on the Promised Messiah AS we draw the line at a point. It should be true vice versa but it isn’t.


  32. Very Cogent Reply. Indeed everyone who says the Shahadah is a Muslim however one has to look a little deeper at their views and righteousness whether they Be Ahmadi Muslim (some bad ones out there), Sunni, Shia etc. A Sunni Muslim would never give his daughter in Marriage to A Shia man who openly declares Hazrat Abu Bakr AS usurped the Khilafat etc whilst as far as I am aware he would still consider him Muslim in a nominal fashion as he does most of the above list. Our position ought to be similar in that we consider all to be fellow muslims as they have done shahaddah and follow the above list but given their views on the Promised Messiah AS we draw the line at a point. It should be true vice versa but it isn’t.


  33. I don’t think that was a fair comment to the author. In all honesty, the Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) very clearly stated what it is to be a Muslim and also what it is to be a follower of the Imam of the latter days. The proclamation of the Shahadah, according to the hadith literature, is sufficient for someone to be called a Muslim, while the bay’ah at the hand of the Mahdi is a further requirement, added by the Holy Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) himself. Your comparison is not accurate.

    On the second issue, I would not marry a child of mine to someone who consciously disobeyed any command of the Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) and neither would his blessed Companions (radi Allahu ‘anhu). There are instances where certain Companions refused to speak to their children because they took an opinion different to that of the Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam). Your argument is far too simplified. The criteria of what differentiates us is set by Almighty Allah and it is on the basis of one’s righteousness. If a person, for arguments sake, wanted to marry his daughter and he had in front of him a born Ahmadi, who had done the bay’at at, but did not follow any of the conditions of his bay’at and thus an immoral person; yet on the other hand you have a non-Ahmadi young man who is righteous, you inform him about the Imam Mahdi on the basis of his claim, and the boy does the bay’at – who in their right mind would consider the born Ahmadi greater?

    I am in no way apologetic about the following, but I believe the Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) instructed that each Muslim must offer his or her bay’at at the hand of the Mahdi. I believe that Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (‘alayhi al-salam) was that very person the Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) foretold. If someone chooses not to accept him, the Imam Mahdi, the person the Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) instructed us to accept, then too right, I not would encourage a daughter of mine marry him. Why on earth should I? That is not because I believe he is less equal to me and my daughter – that is a matter for Almighty Allah.

    As an Ahmadi Sunni Muslim (i.e., an Ahmadi that follows the Sunnah, or tries to at least – please pray for me), I would not say that all Shi’ah Muslims are less equal than Sunni Muslims. Yet, it would be unthinkable for me to accept the marriage of a child of mine to, let’s say, a Shi’ah individual who believes that Hadrat Abu Bakr (radi Allahu ‘anhu) usurped Khilafah (astaghfir Allah) and is worthy of being the subject of insult.

  34. >Were any of the above-mentioned things, or all of them together, enough to make
    > Ahmadis become Muslims? You said: NO, NO, NO, THAT IS NOT ENOUGH TO
    > BE MUSLIM!!!!

    We’re applying a double standard (and I say “we” intentionally, I am Ahmadi as well but I must be intellectually honest). If all those things together are insufficient for *us* to consider a non-Ahmadi-Muslim as Ahmadi, then why why why should we expect that those same criteria should allow a non-Ahmadi-Muslim to consider us on an equal footing with “regular” Sunni Muslims?

    And before you say that we do consider non-Ahmadis as Muslims equal to ourselves, you must realize that you’re being dishonest. Would we *ever* allow our daughters to marry a non-Ahmadi? Why not? I mean, if they do all of them “above-mentioned things”? Right?

  35. How is being granted an asylum good? it was granted BECAUSE Pakistan created a hazard for Ahmadis in the first place. So be happy with the problems we gave you because you got a solution to it? And say no more? Please be reasonable. What is Pakistan if the people did not want to declare kafir? So Pakistan succumbed to pressures from the people? So that means then that Ahmadis are declared Kafir by Pakistanis and not Allah? Is Kafir simply a throw-around term? Ahmadis regard all Muslims as being brothers. So don’t preach if you don’t embrace brotherhood with us while we do so with you. Fear Allah and don’t act against Him by saying something which will come back to you in the form of His punishment. And His punishment is severe indeed.

  36. AA
    You have no idea! Before this ridiculous law was put in place people lived side by side without any animosity.
    Maybe there was some minor disruption but nothing major until this law was passed.
    How did I know this? My extended family were split half Ahmadi and half Sunni, forget living in the same neighbourhood they lived side by side almost in the same house, you would never see that now.
    I hear stories not of conflict between different sects of Islam but mostly the conflict between Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus because of the line drawn through Punjab during the partition (on purpose to cause conflict). Post partition people moved around so much because of fear for their life. Peoples houses were burnt down, women were raped, people were kidnapped and murdered whilst travelling on trains.
    Come night fall there would be a blackout in peoples houses so not to cause attention to themselves.
    You were only asked one question that would decide your fate: What was your faith? No one asked what sect you were.
    Muslims stuck together, no one cared about what sect people were. I thank JInnahs Pakistan, that allowed everyone to be free in one nation. I do not thank this Mullah Pakistan funded by Pakistocrats to instil fear in people so they can avoid paying taxes.

    It’s a shame you were never told about this Pakistan, you should speak to a Muslim that went to a christian school in Pakistan. You will notice a difference they are not so extreme.

    “False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil. ”
    Socrates (AS)

    Don’t fill your heart and soul with lies and hate, search for the truth yourself. Allah The Almighty is ever so merciful.

    I will pray for you, whoever you are.


  37. We always say that persecution benefits us. Allah’s Grace encompasses us both spiritually and materially. You say that the riots resulted in more Muslim deaths than Ahmadis…you should also ask who were the killers? It wasn’t Ahmadi Muslims.

    Tell me, do I have a right to call you a Kafir? If not, why not? I wonder if you give the same reasons Ahmadis give.

  38. Pakistan succumbed to the pressure of the PEOPLE???

    What about succumbing to the pressure of the threat of FIRE made by the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.)? He said: 72 will be in the fire, 1 will be saved.

    I would have thought Pakistan would do ANYTHING to prevent the 72 vs 1 prophecy from being fulfilled.

    But Pakistan has feared its own Mullahs and the masses of ignorant people who follow them, instead of fearing the Prophet of Allah’s warning – peace and blessings of Allah be upon him.

    How many Ahmadis do you think wanted to leave Pakistan? I know hundreds who want to go back and who do not want to live in other countries, but as long as Pakistan’s Mullahs continue to call for the murder of Ahmadis, that will remain an impossibility.

    We will not thank Pakistan for its cruel persecution, for its unislamic Takfiri behaviour of saying who is a Muslim and who isn’t, and for putting an enormous blemish on the holy name of Islam.

    We will only pray for Pakistan, that Allah liberates its people from the claws of their power-hungry religious clerics as soon as possible, and that Allah brings an end, once and for all, to fanaticism in the name of the peaceful religion of Islam.

  39. What should we do? Pakistan didn’t want to declare you as Kafir in 1954..they didnt, the people of Lahore rioted…martial law was imposed. More Muslims died than Ahmadis.

    In 1974, Pakistan succombed to the pressure and declared you people Kafir…you people have since benifitted immensley…your people have applied for asylum more than any other race in the world…You should be thanking Pakistan. Capiche?

  40. This also demonstrates that we are not some small sect. We are the largest organized Muslim sect in the world, no doubt about it.

    Let alone the inability of the entire Muslim world to contend with us, no other group of Muslims that adhere to one fiqh can contend with us either.

    And all this is only through the blessings of Allah, and His beloved Prophet (sa), and His dear Messiah (as), alhumdolillah.

  41. A very well written post with a poignant message. When you so explicitly spell out what the non-Ahmadi Muslims have come together to do, it really makes you think the lengths they will go to to declare us non-Muslim.

  42. Jazak’Allah. A set of very pertinent questions.
    It is time for our non-Ahmadi Muslim brethren to give a thought to the questions raised, and decide for themselves what makes a person Muslim. A good food for thought.

Join the Discussion

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s