Disbelief is One Nation

By Peace4EveryNation

In a documentary aired on Channel 4, in December 2006, The Trouble with Atheism, the arch-atheist Richard Dawkins declared:

The time has come for people of reason to say enough is enough. Religious faith discourages independent thought, it’s divisive and it’s dangerous.”

If one substitutes “Islam” for “reason” and “the Ahmadiyya cult” for “religious faith”, one will end up with:

The time has come for people of Islam to say enough is enough. The Ahmadiyya cult discourages independent thought, it’s divisive and it’s dangerous.”

It is interesting that those who, despite calling themselves the advocates of the “real” Islam, are determined to destroy the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama’at, also happen to be bent on pursuing the lines of argumentation that characterise disbelievers.

Allah the Most High draws our attention to this peculiar phenomenon in verses 53 and 54 of Surah al-Dhaariyaat:

“Even so there came no Messenger to those before them, but they said, ‘A sorcerer, or a madman!’ 

Have they made it a legacy to one another? Nay, they are (all) a rebellious people.”

The arguments put forward by disbelievers, whether they claim to be religious or not, are always so similar in their style and wording that it would appear that they have, in effect, inherited these lines of reasoning from one another. The reason is that they are all rebellious to any authority sent by God and they are hindered in very similar ways by their psychology of rejection.

We should therefore expect to see frighteningly similar words pouring out of the mouths and flowing from the pens of those who disbelieve in the truth, whether they are hardened atheists or religious individuals who choose to disbelieve in one or more of Allah’s messengers.

For, according to the well-known saying,

الكفر ملة واحدة

Disbelief is one nation.”

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121 thoughts on “Disbelief is One Nation

  1. you guys are avoiding cylindrical’s point. Where are these hadith? Ibne khalid, if that was true, there’d be no refutations section section here defending strictly ahmadi beliefs.

  2. al-Hamdu li Allah I will always continue to be a Muslim till the day of my death and follow the words of the Prophet Seyyidina Muhammad (sall Allah ‘alayhi wa sallam) when he said to go take the bay’ah of the Imam Mahdi even if you have to crawl across the glaciers.

    ‘Alayhi al-Salatu wa al-Salam ‘Ala Seyyidina Mirza Ghulam Ahmad al-Imam al-Mahdi

  3. My dear Cylinderical, we’ve moved onto bigger things. We’re out there defending Islam. Instead if concentrating so much on us you should also be out there defending Islam And Rasoolullah from attacks.

  4. I’ve been away for a while; coming back I was expecting to see a blog post showing us the sahih ahadith that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was talking about. It’s really no surprise that no one has come forward. No such sahih ahadith exist; there is only one conclusion one can draw from this.

    I invite you to leave the falsehood of Ahmadiyya and accept Islam.

  5. I think we’re getting too hung up on the “sahih” hadeeth thing. As I’ve stated in an earlier post many expert non-Ahmadi scholars recognise that just because a hadeeth is not called “Sahih” it does not mean it is false. All it means is that its chain of narration breaks down somewhere so is perhaps not as reliable as the “Sahih” hadeeth however can be accepted. We must also remember that there is always a requirement of an element of faith required when it comes to religion…if many of the ahadeeth in support of the Promised Messiah (as) are found in less recognised books, then that is all part of the journey towards Allah. If the hadeeth is proven true then its all about whether you have the guts to accept the truth or not…that’s the real test of a believer. Essentially we are required to pray to Allah for guidance on such controversial matters for He is All Knowing,,,and when it comes to religious truth we should turn Allah to find “The Truth” rather than relying on our weak mental abilities which may be biased towards a particular angle.

  6. ‘Nemo’, I think it is a naive approach to say that every person on the anti-Ahmadi ‘team’ or the Ahmadi awareness ‘team’ has an agenda, while a true truth seeker does not. To stick with the use of your terminology, a truth seeker DOES have an agenda – the truth! I class myself in the ‘seeker’ category more than in the ‘awareness’ team. My agenda to find the divine and rational truth keeps pushing me in the direction of Team Ahmadiyya and I find myself on this side time after time, question after question. I don’t owe any explanation of my apparent bias to any Ahmadi or non-Ahmadi (and neither do you in my opinion). After all, there is only One we are ultimately answerable to.

    And ‘Nemo’, as a fellow seeker, I urge you to always draw a distinction between the fallible actions of mere men and the infallible truth of God’s religion. Maybe that may help you become a little less of an ‘angry ahmadi’.

  7. Nemo, following your journey and pursuit for the truth! Keep us informed and nothing wrong in being neutral while you search for your answers. Your points have a certain sincerity which isn’t disguised by an agenda or bitterness.
    I think you should list the things which anger you the most as well and send to admin to highlight upwards. Admin for me is breath of fresh air, the Qaid I always wanted!

  8. A quick note about metaphor. It forms one of the key parts of Qur’anic interpretation utilised by Muslim jurists since the very life of the Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam). It is ery much a part of our tradition. There is even a whole genre of Tafsir literature, in which Al-Tabari’s tafsir, called Ta’wilat.

  9. Regarding the 14th Century hadith. Sorry to keep bringing it up when the argument is on hold but I just wanted to clarify as it’s been mentioned again on another thread. After reading Al-Hafeez and Nuzhat Haneef’s book, this 14th century hadith was the pivotal moment for me on my personal journey after following the other blog. It seemed like not only did the hadith not even exist, but the Promised Messiah falsely wrote that they did on top of that. If only you lot could see the state I’ve been in! I really wouldn’t be surprised if the younger youth are already on the verge of this after receiving links to the other blog. Honestly I was seriously going to chuck in the towel But I HAD to see what the defence was. And admittedly I am completely defending HMGA’s quote here. Unlike the opponents who cannot understand why we are using ayahs when HMGA specifically said Ahadith, this will become clearer as you read on…

    Am I right that:
    -Quran 48:29 “Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating [in prayer], seeking bounty from Allah and [His] pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their description in the Torah. And their description in the Gospel is as……….”
    -The above mentions are not in today’s Torah or the Gospel (Injeel).
    -peace4everynation says on another thread that these signs were metaphorically mentioned (I have difficulty grasping this that whenever somethink cannot be explained it becomes metaphorical. I CAN accept the whole concept of Jesus not physically ascending and not physically descending but do we really have to milk the metaphorical excuses every time?)…anyway…
    -I thought perhaps they WERE originally in the Torah and Injeel but the modern day versions of Torah and Injeel are no longer the authentic versions of the revealed books.
    – Just because the references can no longer be found in today’s versions of Torah and Injeel, this doesn’t mean that they were never in there once upon a time, and that the Quran is not correct (nausobillah).
    -Because of the above plausibility, then it could also be plausible that Rasoolallah saw could have said that the Promised Messiah will come at the start of the century, and that he would also be the mujadid of the 14th century. It is also plausible that this authentic hadith never survived the chain of narrations.
    -To avoid mis-translation and hopefully most of us on here are bi-lingual and can understand this. My urdu reading is babyish so please correct if I’m wrong. The quote is “…ahadees sahih mey aya tha ke woh masih maud sadee ke shuru par ayega – aur woh chaudhvi sadee ka mujadid ho ga”
    -“ahadees sahih mey aya tha” translates to “it WAS in more than one authentic hadith”. This does NOT translate to “it IS WRITTEN in MANY hadith”.

    Anyway that is all I have gathered so far. There will probably be counter arguments to follow from the likes of cylindrical and I am most open to those, because I am merely stating what I understand, and of course I could be wrong. It all goes back to whether or not it is circular to believe in HMGA and then you accept what he says based on his own say so. I cannot make a conclusion just yet. But what I have established is that the Promised Messiah did give that quote, there is no such hadith that we can present to support what the opponents have interpreted it as. Based on my interpretations of a different translation to that of the opponents, I cannot declare HMGA false based on this particular quote. So you see I do not have an agenda. I’m still an angry ahmadi though and do not agree on a lot of things…This is the difference between someone working on the anti/awareness team and a true truth seeker like me!

  10. Sallam
    My conversion came to me through a dream in which i saw our beloved 4th khaleefah , i did not know at that time as to whom this person was, until 3 years later. By the grace of God , after much soul searching, I came across the ahmadiyya Mosque and that is where I saw the photo of our beloved Huzoor, alhumdollilah, the same man that I had saw 3 years earlier in my dream. those who seek shall find

  11. Its a tough one in regards to the photos as I can not be blind to the fact that Photos of the Khulafa and Promised Messiah (as) are or have been fairly common as part of household decorations. Besides tabligh, rightly or wrongly I think there are other contributing reasons

    1) In my opinion putting up pictures in households first started getting popular when Ahmadis started migrating to Europe. It gave that sense of belonging and remembering who you are, home away from home
    2) I know in our case as children it was used to create an understanding of who the Promised Messiah was and the Khalifah. (in some ways Tarbiyaat as opposed to Tabligh). We had to memorise the names! (Dont worry Culties, I memorised the Khalifah e Rashedeen as well.)
    3)Its a source of identity and representation, along with the old mulaqat pictures! I think with my parents, there was a sense of contentment that this represented an Ahmadi household.

    Now im not saying the above are right or wrong, but I am saying in all of the above the intentions are sincere and far away from any idea of shirk.

    Still the fact it has been highlighted by opponents should not distress us, sometimes is good to have a reminder and a wake up as to some of our habits. To me it maybe something we got used to in the passage of time without thinking to deeply about. But thanks for the heads up…although my dads Amila picture from the 80’s with Hazur surely has to stay. Tell me thats not forbidden please!

  12. “Beware, there shall be no prophet or messenger between Jesus, the son of Mary, and me. Remember, he shall be my Khalifah in my Ummah after me” – Tibrani

    “Thawban (radiAllahu ‘anhu) relates that the Holy Prophet (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said: ‘When you find the Mahdī, perform bay’ah at his hands. You must go to him, even if you have to reach him across glaciers on your knees. He is the Mahdī, the Khalifah of Allāh.” – Ibn Majah, Kitab al-Fitn

    “It has been narrated on the authority of Aba Sa’id al-Khudri (radiAllahu ‘anhu) that the Messenger of Allāh (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said: When oath of allegiance has been taken for two Khulafah, kill the one for whom the oath was taken later. – Sahi Muslim, Kitab al-Imarah, Chapter 20-15: When the Oath of Allegiance Has Been Taken for 2 Caliphs

    If both the al-Masih al-Mau’ood, ‘Eisa ibn Maryam (‘alayhi al-salam) who is to come down from the sky in the latter days is named as a Khalifah, and so is al-Imam al-Mahdi, and there is a narration in Sahih Muslim that you cannot believe in 2 Khulafah at the same time, then this is a clear indication that the Imam Mahdi and Promised Messiah – both being named Khalifah by the Prophet (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) – are one and the same person.

    It is the only logical explanation for this, or we find contradictions in the words of the Prophet (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wa sallam).

  13. عن أبي هريرة عن النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏قال ‏ ‏يوشك من عاش منكم أن يلقى ‏ ‏عيسى ابن مريم ‏ ‏إماما مهديا وحكما عدلا فيكسر الصليب ويقتل الخنزير ويضع ‏ ‏الجزية ‏ ‏وتضع الحرب ‏ ‏أوزارها

    Rough translation (by myself):
    “Narrated by Abu Harayrah (radiAllahu ‘anhu) (that) the Prophet (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said: It is possible that he who lives of you might meet Jesus, the son of Mary, (who is) Imam Mahdi and a just judge (al-Hakam ‘Adal). He will break the cross (al-Saleeb) and kill the pig (al-Khinzeer), and remove (the need for) the Jizyah (poll-tax by Dhimmis in Muslim countries), and put an end to war (al-Harb).”

    – From the Book of Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal with a sound Isnad

  14. Also Makhzan e Tasaveer to me anyway is a fascinating historical portrait of Ahamdiyyat and I spent a good hour in there once looking at the photos

  15. @Nemo. I am not denying that some Ahmadi Muslims and Halls/Deer Park Road have some pictures up but if you are honest you know the priniciple purpose is tabligh and at least as far as I am aware NOBODY has a hint of shirk behind displaying these photos.

    As the Promised Messiah AS has passed away there is no way anyone could see his blessed face except in a picture and he was clear that showing his picture was ok for the purposes of Tabligh. If someone has a picture for any other reason then that is wrong.

    If we extend your reasoning then The Jamaat should never have started MTA as that shows pictures of the Promised Messiah AS, The Khulafa in live videos beamed to everyones home throughout the world. Everyone knows that the purpose of MTA is tabligh.

    Salam

    Tiger123

  16. I think that is a bit unfair Nemo. You have not afforded me the opportunity to respond. The fact that no one has responded to the timeline set by Findings is of no importance. I, as I am sure is the case with many, would not respond to the demands of that individual as he/she shows no respect. I will, however, respond to you as you have been respectful. It can sometimes take a few hours just to find a book, even longer to find a good edition of that book. Old books often have no, or poor, indexes and you have to literally read, or play the guessing game with, an entire book (or invariable several volumes). When presented on this blog, or any other forum, the reference may only take up a short paragraph, yet the journey behind that could be literally days long.

  17. ‘Nemo’, the question is WHY is that picture up in your living room? If the answer to that is for the purposes of tabligh, then that has already been addressed by ‘Tiger’ above. If the answer is not tabligh, then there is no need for any ‘new’ instruction to counter that. The instruction stands and always has.

    And don’t forget you yourself said ‘living room’. The room where guests from outside are entertained and will be able to see any photos for the purposes stated already. If any families (mine included) are forgetting this purpose, then a gentle reminder from a well wisher is due. Not any ‘new’ instruction.

  18. In case anyone has not been following, the 14th century discussion is currently on hold as artofm is going to blog this shortly inshallah for us all to discuss. It’s quite clear that no such hadith has been presented and so that is the end of the matter for ‘them’. However I amstill interested because I want to hear all the reasons that will be presented to back up Ahmadiyyat.

  19. I have a video of my parent’s wedding in the Mahmood hall with that massive gigantic picture up in the prayer hall at the time. Go to Baitul Futuh, tell me what you see as you approach the Nasir Hall/Aftab Khan library. Or better still, just head dwonto Makhzan-e-tasveer at 22 Deer Park Road.

  20. @Tiger I strongly disagree. Nearly everyone has pictures of the Promised Messiah in their house. Just do the rounds in your halqa with your sadr/qaid….that will be enough evidence for you. I have a picture of the Promised Messiah (as) in my living room wall, just as big as the one in Huzoor’s office and believe me it would create a huge storm in my house if I even suggested to have it taken down as the question would arise “why?”. There’s only one way the jamaat will follow a ‘new’ instruction for everyone to take them down, and we know who has the ultimate say so for that one.

  21. @Cylindrical

    Coudl you substantiate “every Ahmadi has the pictures of him and his successors in the house”. I certainly don’t have any pictures on any wall in the house and most Ahmadi Muslims I know don’t either. I have Got one or two pictures tucked away somewhere and that’s it. As The Promised Messiah AS has said it is useful to have some pictures to show those who may never see the Promised Messiah AS as it may confirm someone they have seen through a vision/dream. Indeed many people as referenced in Hazur ATBA Khutbas have come to Islam Ahmadiyyat through seeing pictures of either The Promised Messiah or his Khulafas. The Promised Messiah AS was angry/concerned as people may start worshipping the photo or start Bidat which is not islamic. Fortunately this has not happened and the pictures have only served in the way The Promised Messiah predicted i.e to bring more people to the truth.

    Salam

  22. These are not sahih hadith. You haven’t even stated the chain of narration, how do we know this is a saying of the Prophet (SAW)? I’ve never heard of An-Najmus Saqih or Al-Najm al-Thaqib and can’t find them online. When I google them I only find Ahmadiyya websites… where can we find these books to verify these “hadith”?

    Besides that these sayings are about the Mahdi, not the Promised Messiah. And according to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad all ahadith regarding the Mahdi are unreliable, especially the “There is no Mahdi except Isa” hadith in Ibn Majah (RK7, Hamamatul Bushra).

  23. Sorry, I didn’t see this post.

    Here’s the link:

    http://www.alislam.org/library/malf049.htm

    Malfoozat Vol. 8, pg. 149-151

    As you can see Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was totally against the idea of his pictures being printed and kept in peoples houses. But today every Ahmadi household has a picture of him and his successors. And who sells them these pictures? Your very own leadership at Jalsas and Ijtemas.

    Regarding the death of Isa (as), I don’t see the relevance to Mirza Ghulam’s claim. I believe what the majority of classical scholars believed. That Allah (SWT) raised him up and will send him back in the latter days.

    But even if it is assumed that Isa (as) has died (which is nothing new in Islam, there have been many scholars who believed that), how does that prove Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s claim?

  24. How are these sahih hadith? What is the chain of narration? Where can we find An-Najmus Saqih and Al-Najm al-Thaqib? When I googled it I only found links to Ahmadiyya websites. You could have just totally made them up, there is no way of verifying it.

    Besides that these are “hadith” relating to the Mahdi, not the Masih. And do you know what Mirza Ghulam Ahmad said regarding those hadith? In Ruhani Khazain 7, Hamamatul Bushra your Prophet declared all ahadith regarding the Mahdi as weak and contradictory, especially the hadith “There is no mahdi except Isa” in Ibn Majah.

  25. Apologies I think it’s not ‘muttawafika’ that has been used but ‘muttawafi’ or the root word in it’s various forms…all mean ‘to die’.

    I think it can also be interpreted as ‘to sleep’ in some places in the Quran but the context of the particular verse would make that very clear.

  26. Oh anonymous one, the ‘challenge’ ended exactly the way it was pre-planned to end. There was never any question of any response fulfilling her specific demands. With every self-designed ego boost that the opponents of true Islam fashion for themselves, I pray that Allah gives the seekers of truth a thousand-fold boost of Iman. I for one am glad the point was presented, so that myself and the many readers of this blog and others like it could witness its clear refutation. Perhaps she is reading this, perhaps she will see my heartfelt gratitude.

  27. Salaam Muslim First

    I think before considering what the ulema have said I think you need to look at what Allah Ta’ala has said in the Quran about Hadhrat Isa (as).

    Does it not very clearly state that Hadhrat Isa (as) died? The word ‘muttawafika’ is used elsewhere in the Quran. In all places it means ‘to die’. I think there are at least 25 examples…i have the list of references somewhere. Why does it not mean the same in reference to Hadhrat Isa (as)? Similarly the word ‘Rafa’ (to raise) has also been used for Hadhrat Idris (as) in the Quran…why does it not mean physical ascension for Hadhrat Idris (as) but only his spiritual station?

    I hope you have considered and studied these points before you decided the Ahmadiyya beliefs are incorrect!

  28. Well Ahmadi Girl looks like everyone here tried their best to help you and get readers to understand. What I don’t understand is that the blog girl has now said that she would have even settled for a daeef hadith but not a single one was presented according to her. Well in AcidFlow’s links there were at least two and these were clearly highlighted in the discussions here and on the other forums:

    “When one thousand and two hundred and forty years will pass, God will raise Mahdi.” (An-Najmus Saqih, Vol. 2, p. 209)

    “Allah will send the Mahdi after the passage of twelve hundred and forty years.” (Al-Najm al-Thaqib, vol. 2, p. 209, pub. Ahmadi, Patna Mughlapura, ref. Ibn Abi Shibah.)

    But she did say she was “specifically looking for ‘Promised Messiah’ ‘Beginning of a Century’ and ‘He (Promised Messiah) will be the Reformer of the 14th Century’”. I guess that’swhy perhaps she did not accept those. Oh well!

  29. @artofmisinformation

    i don’t share the same opinion as you, i side with the orthodox opinion because i’m unconvinced by the arguments presented by ahmadiyyah. i feel it’s completely coherent to believe that esa alayhisalam is alive and that abu bakr radi allahu anh said what he said , no problems, no contradictions.

    @ahmadi by nature

    thanks, i also enjoy reading the comments of you guys, specifically artofmisinformation and muslimsunrise.
    i find it more plausible to believe that allah ezza wa jal can do something awesome like the (whole jesus thing) than believe he sent ‘ulema, the only ones who fear allah, the mujadids, the inheritors of the prophets, who fell into this ‘shirk’, all of them.

    @acidflow

    who believed this? did any of the mujadids believe this?

    anyway, i started posting on this specific post because i wanted to know of a scholar who believed that the mahdi would come in the 14th century

  30. There was an interesting discussion over a year ago on an american khuddam forum http://www.mkausa.org/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=515&func=view&catid=21&id=749. I would like to quote two of the posts here which may be of interest to Ibne Khalid and cylindrical:

    1st post:
    “As most of you are already aware, any website which presents Jamaati media (ex Youtube, Facebook, Forums) are all subject to very hateful and objectionable comments by Non Ahmadi Muslims. Most often, the comments are just hateful remarks and allegations which have been answered by Jama’at many many times, but I am asking about those individuals, who either scanned pages of Promised Messiah’s AS books, question about his life, or question the Nizam-e-Jamaat.

    From what I have seen, if we do answer an allegation, they respond with another answer or “contradiction”(these threads go on for pages), but if we don’t, they think they have won and proved us wrong. To make the matter worse, usually an emotional Ahmadi ends up answering in a wrong or disrespectful manner, further escalating their assumptions. Mainly I am concerned for the Ahmadies who read such things, it is a chance those weak of faith might fall prey to these people.

    Should we be replying to such allegations? What is the consensus on replying to Anti-Ahmadi posts and forums?”

    3rd post:
    “Here are some of the rules that I would suggest:

    – for a quote of Promised Messiah, full reference must be asked for and preferrably a link. I have never seen a situation where an objection to a quote from Promised Messiah as was not answered above or below the quoted passage by the Promised Messiah as himself.

    – Filth, name calling, abusive language must be shunned. If someone engages in that, let him know and move on. A decent nature cannot be impressed by a filthy mouth/hand and those who do get impressed may not be the ones we are going after anyways. It is better to stop the debate right when a party engages in such language. Generally, any topic can be discussed without resorting to filthy language.

    – Discussion for the sake of debate is never productive. the discussion leaves the original question and several tangential issues open up. Try to address such secondary questions but always try to come back to main question before the end of your reply. This should help in keeping the discussion on track.

    There is a book “Ahmadiyya Pocket Book” which was written to collect all common allegations against Islam/Ahmadiyyat and answer them. May be someone should create an online version of the same. It is updated regularly with new questions, answers, etc. Then as a rule, we use that site as a reference or just link to it. I recommend that the site uses the input from respected missionaries. This site obviously cannot cater to every single piece of filth that someone can imagine, but repeatedly and consistently linking people to this site will mold the level and quality of debate to our wishes and also help Ahmadis avoid losing their patience.”

    ^The above post talks about the ‘Ahmadiyya Pocket Book’. I only wish there could have been an English version of this.

  31. AA

    JazakAllah for your input brothers. I’m aware of Ancient texts being unreliable at times, so I kind of walked right in to that one.
    It reminds me of Herodotus the Greek historian, most of his claims were exaggerations, he was completely obsessed with ancient egypt. So much so that he wrote in his accounts that Greek philosophy was stolen from Egyptian philosophy, which is completely false.
    …I digress.
    JazakAllah
    Wasalaam

  32. And yet there have been many ‘Ulemah from the so-called Ahl al-Sunnah and even people today from among them that believe that ‘Eisa (;alayhi al-salam) died a natural death.

    I don’t accept something just because the majority believes it. Just my two cents.

  33. Even though the Gospel of Barnabas really reinforces our ideologies about Jesus (as), you must realize it was very heavily tampered and interpolated by Muslims during the Middle Ages.

    There are other ancient Biblical texts in the Apocrypha as well as the Dead Sea Scrolls that allude to our opinions about Jesus (as) however.

  34. AA

    JazakAllah Brother for your response, I really appreciate it. Admittedly I haven’t read the whole of Gospel of Barnabas, I came across this researching something else and it was driving me mental.
    I think your opinion is quite sound, there have been many suggestions by Christian Missionaries that this Gospel is unreliable.
    Jazakallah for the recommendation.
    Wasalaam

  35. once i read the whole barnabas just to get the idea what is written in it.

    I think ( my personnel opinion, without any proof ) that this bible was tweaked by some muslim , only God knows the reality.

    the way name of hazrat Muhammad (saw) was mentioned in teh Barnabas is strange for me Quran says clearly that Jesus told the christians that a Prophet with the name of AHMAD shall come , which we all believe is the name of the hazrat Muhammad (saw).

    it was quite amusing for me to read that ( writing purely on my memory which is about 7 to 8 year old , might do some error in recollecting it but as far as i remember it is written in barnabas)

    1) Jodah was given the face of Jesus (as)
    1) jesus (as) went to the sky
    2) his mother started weeping over seeing the dead body of jodah , considering him Jesus(as)
    3) then God gave special permission to Jesus (as) to return for once to met his mother
    4) after meeting with his mother , Jesus(as) went to the sky second time and so on.

    I wonder millions and millions of mother weep over the loss of the their sons and daughters but God do not send even a single person back , why this happened to Jesus (as) alone .

    regarding the hazoor (as) writing from the Book “Messiah Hindustan meen ”

    I would like to suggest you to read the book “chashm a messiahi ”
    hazoor (as) wrote regarding the old scripture that
    “The main point is that proving some old scripture real of fake is the task which only the revelation of the God can do , thus if some thing from the old scriptures coincide with the revelation of the God then that part is real , and it might be some people consider it fake , similarly if some incident is termed as fake in the revelation of the God almighty then it is fake incident , and it might be people consider it true. ”
    Rhani Kazain volume 20
    page 240-241

    hence for us if something from barnabas is against the revelation of the God i.e quran and off course that revelation which came down on promised Messiah (as) , then we shall consider it fake
    regrads

  36. @Muslimfirst respect your opinion, Just don’t Agree when you say one of our beliefs is far fetched but when it suits you it’s Allahs will.
    All said and done i am enjoying your comments as gives me food for thought and motivation to question my beliefs so jazakallah.

  37. Nemo it was the wink that did it, sorry. Ahmadigirl I hope you do come back so we can all discuss true Islam. I understand why anyone would be upset being referred to as the other blog girl. Apologies.

  38. AhmadiGirl asides from that and the welcome to you with good intentions, I would like to hear what you make of the discussion you have been following on here which you have initiated here. I myself am unclear as there is still no solid hadith from the 6 authentic books, yet there seems to be very clear hadith which are daeef to non-ahmadis but sahih according to the Promised Messiah (as). It really boils down to what you choose to see and believe, the connections you may want to make with Quranic verses and whether or not you think it’s circular to accept someone based upon an interpretation of their own say so.

  39. @MuslimFirst: I don’t think your particular argument regarding Hadrat ‘Isa (‘alayhi al-salam) is valid. Imam al-Tahawi (rahmat Allah ‘alayhi) wrote his ‘aqidah at a time when polemics had become a fashionable part of the ‘aqidah literature – meaning there was a distinct context. You really have to go further back than that.

    And in all fairness, the first and only primary source of Islam, namely the Qur’an, clearly says that Hadrat ‘Isa (‘alayhi al-salam) passed away, this is then confirmed in the very first book of history, the Maghazi of ‘Urwa b. al-Zubayr (rahmat Allah ‘alayhi) with regards to the famous statement of Hadrat Abu Bakr (radi Allahu ‘anhu) upon the death of the Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam), and then further supported by the most authentic book of hadith, Sahih al-Bukhari. The status of Hadrat ‘Isa (‘alayhi al-salam) is really very straight forward in my opinion.

    Jazak Allah Khayr al-Jazaa’

  40. To be fair, I don’t think it was suspicion on that person’s part at all. They clearly misunderstood your reference – that’s all. This is proved by that fact that despite the fact that people wrongly thought she had come from another site, they all welcomed her here with open arms. Just as you were welcomed here when you first came. I don’t personally treat you with suspicious or anybody else. As I have always said, all are welcome.

    As you mentioned it, how is your journey coming along?

  41. Indeed suspicion is not good. You remind me of someone who had the same determination as you, and that person you remind me of was MYSELF – how I used to be right at the start of my journey for the truth! I don’t know why ANONYMOUS then suggested reference to someone from another blog as I didn’t say anything about someone being from another blog.

  42. Ahmadi girl I think things get lost in translation sometimes on forums.
    Either way I think your contributions really add to the forum and keeps a seeker of knowledge interested during breaks at uni! Hope you stick around.

  43. @peace4
    sorry if i came off as antagonising. obviously i’m not a fan of ahmadiyyah but that doesn’t mean i get to be a jerk. I hope we can enjoy a civil discourse from now on.

    I’m gonna avoid replying to the bulk of your comment to keep myself from
    going on a long rant about why i feel the way i feel about ahmadiyyah.

    Anyway, in sha allah, if you give me proof that many major ulema believed that the mahdi or esa alayhi salam would come in the 14th century but not by mere opinion and without too much criticism from other major ulema then i’ll believe it. But it is the practice of our noble ulema to act upon evidence from the book and sunnah, not anything arbitrary. So if they did believe this, you should’ve been able to provide me with a daleel from the quran or sunnah by now. So present it.

    I’ll admit though, i do have my mind made up alhamdulillah. I’m not ashamed to say that. I ask allah to let me meet him as a muslim.

    Concerning arguments about wafat-e-masih, i’ve heard probably all of them. I come from a very religious ahmadi family and my dad watches rah-e-huda all day. I don’t find those arguments convincing anymore and find the position of ahl-us-sunnah more consistent with wahi. This has been my opinion for the past three/four years. As a result i believe that the ulema were correct in their belief about esa alayhi salaam’s return. This is a very old belief of the muslims btw, believed by the salaf as noted in aqeedah tahawiyah so i don’t think you can dismiss it as a christian innovation. Christians believe many things, is this the only belief that crept into muslim aqeedah? It’s not even exactly what christians believe, they believe he died for them, that’s the most fundamental of their beliefs.

    @ahmadi by nature
    i believe allah is ala kulli shai’in qadir. He created everything out of nothing, he gave muhammad sal allahu alayhi wa sallem wahi. All of that is very ajeeb yet i believe it.

  44. I do not think anybody is mocking you. Somebody hinted they knew you. If they are wrong then they are wrong. You were only being welcomed by members.

  45. AhmadiGirl: Please do accept my sincerest apology if you were made to feel that way sister. The comment from Nemo gave that impression to some. Most people here, if not all, have read what was on the other site with equal disgust to you, I am sure. Your comments are important here and I would urge you to reconsider your decision. Either way it is your decision. My only point, in response to what was said by others, was to say that it is really of little importance where you or any person here came from and that what ever the case everyone is welcome.

    In response to your initial messages, I did ask if you would be kind enough to list the questions you said you had seen so that we can try to address them here. Please do list them and we can push on with the task at hand which you rightfully mentioned. Again, I do apologise and I am quite sure no other comments will be made that make you feel uncomfortable. I do not think anyone intended any wrong here.

    Jazak Allah Khayr al-Jazaa’

  46. If the Messiah was to descend upon the earth in the fashion that many non-Ahmadi Muslims believe then the whole world would know about it without any technology. As for the Israel point, both Hadrat ‘Isa (‘alayhi al-salam) and Muslims have both had a very difficult history with the Jewish people. I doubt the border control would stamp him passport.

  47. As there are satellites all over the globe now, if somebody descends from the sky it will be recorded on video right? I’m sure with the technology we have to day that there would be some sort of graphic evidence of this kind of phenomena. That means the whole world would bare witness to seeing somebody descend from the skies and HAVE to accept the messiah (as)? Will the world convert to Islam that easily? Also if Hazrat Issa (as) did descend to planet Earth again, which country would process his passport? Israel?
    Just a thought.

  48. Sat nav Quality may depend on the cloud, unless cloud technology catches up by then, or am I getting confused brother!

  49. Indeed.Thus said the Jews of many centuries that Elijah is to return from the sky as he was raised up there. For them it was far fetched to believe that their Ulema had no integrity and would contradict Torah/Talmud/Malachi etc etc..

  50. I am really rather insulted that you brothers are mocking me. I am an Ahmadi and have never been a member of the other blog. I am not sure why Nemo would say she is reminded of someone she knows or even suggest she knows me, that is suspicion and suspicion is a sin in Islam. I only came on this site after our local halqa tarbiyyat secretary told us to visit. I am not comfortable with people treating me with suspicion so I will not be coming back. I only wanted help locating ahadith, but I was wrong. Deeply disheartened and very offended by some of the comments. Ahmadi from Chiswick, London.

  51. AA
    AA

    This may be slightly off topic, but I was wondering if someone could shed some light on the Gospel of Barnabas and how relevant it is?

    The name of Muhammad (S.A) is frequently mentioned verbatim in the Gospel of Barnabas, as in the following quotes:
    “Jesus answered: “The name of the Messiah is admirable, for God himself gave him the name when he had created his soul, and placed it in a celestial splendour. God said: ‘Wait Mohammed; for thy sake I will to create paradise, the world, and a great multitude of creatures, whereof I make thee a present, insomuch that whoso bless thee shall be blessed, and whoso shall curse thee shall be accursed. When I shall send thee into the world I shall send thee as my messenger of salvation, and thy word shall be true, insomuch that heaven and earth shall fail, but thy faith shall never fail.’ Mohammed is his blessed name.” Then the crowd lifted up their voices, saying: “O God, send us thy messenger: O Admirable One, come quickly for the salvation of the world!”
    —Barnabas 97:9-10
    And also:

    Then Jesus said: “I am a voice that cries through all Judea, and cries: ‘Prepare you the way for the messenger of the Lord’, even as it is written in Esaias.” They said: “If you be not the Messiah nor Elijah, or any prophet, wherefore do you preach new doctrine, and make yourself of more account than the Messiah?” Jesus answered: “The miracles which God works by my hands show that I speak that which God wills; nor indeed do I make myself to be accounted as him of whom you speak. For I am not worthy to unloose the ties of the hosen or the ratchets of the shoes of the Messenger of God whom you call ‘Messiah’, who was made before me, and shall come after me, and shall bring the words of truth, so that his faith shall have no end.”
    —Chapter 43

    The Gospel of Barnabas denies that Jesus is the Messiah, and instead says Muhammad (S.A)is the Messiah:
    Jesus confessed and said the truth, “I am not the Messiah”. (chap. 42).
    “The priest answered: ‘After the coming of the messenger of God shall other prophets come?’
    Jesus answered: ‘There shall not come after him true prophets sent by God but there shall come a great number of false prophets, whereat I sorrow. For Satan shall raise them up by the just judgement of God, and they shall hide themselves under the pretext of my gospel.’
    Herod answered: ‘How is it a just judgement of God that such impious men should come?’
    Jesus answered: ‘It is just that he who will not believe in the truth to his salvation should believe in a lie to his damnation. Wherefore I say unto you, that the world hath ever despised the true prophets and loved the false, as can be seen in the time of Michaiah and Jeremiah. For every like loveth his like.’
    Then said the priest: ‘How shall the Messiah be called, and what sign shall reveal his coming?’
    Jesus answered: ‘The name of the Messiah is admirable, for God himself gave him the name when he had created his soul, and placed it in a celestial splendour. God said: ‘Wait Mohammed; for thy sake I will to create paradise, the world, and a great multitude of creatures, whereof I make thee a present, insomuch that whoso shall bless thee shall be blessed, and whoso shall curse thee shall be accursed. When I shall send thee into the world I shall send thee as my messenger of salvation, and thy word shall be true, insomuch that heaven and earth shall fail, but thy faith shall never fail.” Mohammed is his blessed name.’
    Then the crowd lifted up their voices, saying: ‘O God, send us thy messenger: O Mohammed, come quickly for the salvation of the world!’” Chapter97

    I came across this verse in the Holy Quran:
    “And remember when Jesus, son of Mary, said, ‘O children of Israel, surely I am Allah’s Messenger unto you, fulfilling that which is before me of the Torah, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger who will come after me. His name will be Ahmad.’ And when he came to them with clear proofs, they said, ‘This is clear enchantment.’”
    Chapter 61 Verse 7

    Promised Messiah (AS) as wrote about this book in Jesus in India

    “After all that has been stated, it should be kept in mind that in the gospel of Barnabas, which must be available in the British Museum, it is stated that Jesus was not crucified, not did he die on the Cross. Now we can very well say that though this book is not included in the gospels and has been rejected summarily, yet there is no doubt that it is an ancient book, and it belongs to the period in which the other gospels were written. Is it not open to us to regard this ancient book as a book of history of ancient times and to make use of it as a book of history? Does it not follow from this book that at least at the time when the event of the Cross took place, people were not unanimous as to Jesus’ dying on the Cross?”
    http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html

    Apologies for the long question.

    Wasalaam

  52. Our brothers in Syria can always let us know whether their sat nav managed to take them safely to “White Minaret, East of Damascus”… 🙂

  53. @Ahmadi by Nature: I particularly enjoyed the “sat nav” bit!!! :o) Nothing should prevent a prophet descending bodily form heaven from using modern technology. In theory at least!

  54. I would advise you, “Muslim First”, to go and read up on the incontrovertible Qur’anic proofs Ahmadi Muslims have put forward on the topic of the death of Seyyiduna ‘Isa (a.s.).

    For example, you can read dozens of questions on this topic at the Rah-e-Huda forum:

    http://rahehuda.mta.tv/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=showcat&catid=10&Itemid=107

    It is not at all through a lack of integrity that many ‘3ulama of the past held on to the wrong belief of Jesus (pbuh) living in heaven with his physical body. There are several historical reasons which can explain how this belief crept into Islam along with Christian converts.

    You have to make your own mind up, by analysing the arguments against it yourself. You will have to answer to Allah on your own. No one will carry your burden on the Day of Judgment.

  55. Do you really think we base our belief on the Mahdi’s appearance in the 14th Century on that one single reference?
    I was merely pointing out the fact that you have here a reference in Sunni literature showing that this belief is widespread, and that there must be a reason for it, which you should try to find out. That is all.

    What you are asking for is the names and references of Mujaddideen, ‘Ulama and Awliyaa to show they did indeed understand from the Ahadeeth that the Mahdi/Messiah would appear in the 14th Century. Right?

    But if we provide you with those references, will you then declare you agree with them, or have you already made your mind up that WHATEVER we present, you are not going to believe? I may be wrong but I am getting the feeling that you have already made your mind up, and your questions here are nothing but antagonism towards Ahmadi Muslims, a fruitless venture as far as your spirituality is concerned.

    It is telling that when people who are bent on disbelieving pursue a line of attack, and when they find it leads to their own failure, they drop it and run off to something else. The very Sunni and Shi’ite Imams who kept on jeering at us Ahmadis saying: “The 14th Century is not over yet, the Mahdi will come, and your Mirza is false (na’udhu billah)!!” kept on chanting this mantra for 100 years.

    And then…the 14th Century came to an end. So what did they do? Did they repent, say they admit they had been wrong and run back to the only true claimant of Mahdawiyyah? NO. They said: “We must have misinterpreted the Ahadeeth and signs of the hour.”

    Similarly, more recently, an attack was launched in a video on YouTube by a cultist on the Imam Mahdi’s claim to be the second coming of Krishna (a.s.). When one of our youth made two videos in response:


    and thanked the cultist for granting him the opportunity to shed more light on the wonderful fulfilment of Krishna’s prophecy, what did that cultist do? Did he repent and admit he had been wrong and make amends? NO! He deleted his own video from his YouTube channel and went on to try some other tactics! That just shows the darkness of his enmity and the extent of his dishonesty towards seekers of truth.

    I wonder why some people even bother to ask, when they know full well that they are not here for humbly seeking the truth. They are here only to debate for the sake of debating. I do hope you do not fall into that category.

    Perhaps some of our contributors here would like to present some names of scholars of the past who have wrttten on the 14th Century prophecy. Jazakumullahu Ahsanal Jaza. Otherwise, when I find the time, I will attempt to do so myself.

    Even if whoever has asked for them does not truly want to benefit from this information in any way.

  56. I’m with Muslim first on this. Jesus (as) is still alive in heaven, approximate age of 2000 and can’t wait for him to descend from that cloud to the east of damascus and sat nav to a White minaret.
    As for Ahmadis, they are so far fetched! Really?

  57. isa alayhi salaam’s living doesn’t contradict the quran. do you think the great ‘ulema had no integrity and contradicted ‘a clear edict of the quran’ for no reason? that’s a little far-fetched.

  58. do you honestly think you’d believe this as an axiom if the tables were reversed? if i told you that imam reza khan barelvi (last mujaddid for the ahmadis before ahmadiyat) traveled the muslim world and found many religious people saying that the prophet didn’t have a shadow, would you take it as axiomatic? would you even believe it?

    the problems are that;
    1. we can’t generalize the opinions of those who khawaja sahib rahimahullah met to the whole of the ummah and infer ijma’.
    2. he didn’t say their anxiousness was based on evidence. have you ever met a shi’a person and noticed how anxious they are for the mahdi to come? that doesn’t mean he’s necessarily due now, it merely means that they want him now. only one person was certain that he would come in a certain year (1331) and even that was after the death of MGA so I assume you wouldn’t take him as an authority.

  59. Assalamu Alaikkum Ahmadi Girl,

    You mentioned that in “RK ( I assume Ruhani Khazain) and there are only 6 formally recognised Sahih Hadith Books” and that you would like the proofs from them.

    However this is what the Promised Messiah(AS) has said about Authoritive books in his book Arya Dharam. In it he mentions 8 books.(The background is that Huzoor is setting the condition for debate with the Mulsim Ulema. which may not be clear from the quotes below)

    Quote:-
    “Of the other books that are accepted by us the Sahih of Bukhari ranks as the first. All its Ahadith which are not opposed to the Holy Qur’an are in our view authoritative. Next comes Sahih Muslim. We accept its authority subject to the condition that it should not be opposed to the Holy Qur’an and Sahih Bukhari. Next to them are the compilations of Tirmidhi, Ibn-e-Majah, Muattah of Imam
    Malik, Nassa’i, Abu Da’ud and Dar Qutni, which we regard as authoritative so long as they are not opposed to the Holy Qur’an and Bukhari and Muslim. These are our religious books and these are the conditions under which we accept them…. Every critic must confine himself to
    these books and these conditions.”

    Further reading on
    http://www.alislam.org/library/browse/book/The_Essence_of_Islam/?p=2#page/132/mode/2up

    As it can be quite clearly seen Huzoor(AS) has also included Muwatta and Dar Qutni in the set of Authoritative Ahadith books. Also conditions are placed that even for ahadith from Bukhari they should conform to Quranic teachings.

    The overall Aqeeda on Ahadith is encapsulated in his writings which can be see here
    http://www.alislam.org/library/browse/book/The_Essence_of_Islam/?p=2#page/128/mode/2up

    It is very important to note Huzoor’s view on accepting Ahadith
    Quote :-
    The Qur’an and Sunnah should judge the Ahadith and those that are not opposed to them should by all means be accepted. This is the straight path and blessed are those who follow it. Most unfortunate and foolish is the person who rejects the Ahadith altogether without regard
    to the test that we have proposed.

    It should be the duty of the members of our Community that a Hadith which is not opposed to the Qur’an and Sunnah, should be accepted and followed, however weak might be its authority, and it should be preferred to the rules framed by jurists.
    [Review bar Mubahatha Batalwi wa Chakralwi, Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 19, pp. 209-212]

  60. Muslim First, I do not wish to come across as impolite. Bu it is not my job to convince you. I started my response with the clarifications that those who are looking for ahadith to prove the argument “by letter” may not find one. However the the issue may become clear to those who are willing to keep an open mind and use reasoning . Anyway it is upto Allah to guide each and He knows best.

    The task for me as per my religion is to pass on the message which was given to my master and the pride of both worlds (SA) and his disciple(AS). I am too weak to convince anyone, unless Allah wills so. May Allah guide us all forgive our sins.

    Regarding the specific issue, At the risk of repeating myself, those who consider themselves as Ahmadis are convinced that the sahih Ahadith leave no doubt this issue, just like Ahmadis and other muslims are convinced that the Quranic verse dealing with the mention of the Holy Prophet(SA) in earlier scripts can be proven without doubt.

  61. “Muslim First”, if you search, you will find. One of the references given on the link you mentioned is from a Sunni publication, and it contains the following wording:

    “The late Khawaja Hasan Nizami, after his tour of the Islamic countries wrote: “All the divines and saintly people with whom I met during my tour of the Islamic countries, I found them anxiously awaiting for the Imam Mahdi. A Khalifa of Sheikh Sanosi went up to the extent of saying that the Imam Mahdi shall appear in this very year–1331 A.H.”
    (Ahl-Hadith, January 26, 1912) ”

    Why were all the divines and saintly people in those Islamic countries awaiting the Imam Mahdi’s appearance during the century they were living in – the 14th Century A.H.? Think.

    To answer your question, when many scholars hold a certain thing to be axiomatic, we consider it true IF IT DOES NOT CONTRAVENE A CLEAR EDICT OF THE NOBLE QUR’AN. To illustrate: the story of Jesus (pbuh) being alive with his physical body in heaven, though upheld by many scholars of the past, is in direct conflict with at least THIRTY Qur’anic verses, and indeed logic itself, therefore we reject it.

    So now, tell us why YOU reject the belief of the scholars of the past in the axiom that the Mahdi would appear in the 14th Century A.H. Do you have a solid Qur’anic basis for your rejection, or are you simply doing taqlid of present-day Imams?

  62. honestly, nothing is compelling me in this to believe the mahdi will come in the 14th century. you have a good writing style, you’re probably good at essays but this isn’t a clear argument.

  63. i read the evidence from the al-islam link. who testified to its truth? just one person who i’ve never heard of but you wrote ‘…so many Mujaddideen, Awliyaa and ‘Ulama of the past testified to the truth of these Ahadeeth…’

    aqeedah is based off saheeh hadith.

    btw, do you follow the methodology you’re proposing? that when many scholars hold a certain thing to be axiomatic, then it’s true?

  64. JazakaAllah, but I don’t deserve any compliments. I’m sure I’ve heard someone say something similar to me before regarding the Promised Messiah’s (as) view on Bukhari but I’ve never read it.

  65. Jazak Allah. May Almighty Allah bless you as you reached the same view expressed by Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (‘alayhi al-salam) who said that there is no hadith in Sahih al-Bukhari that he could not personally reconcile with the Qur’an and other hadiths.

  66. I once attended a 2 day Hadith course at the East London mosque. It was a very good course and had some very learned non-Ahmadi Muslim scholars. One thing they said was that even though a Hadith may be termed Daeef (unreliable) it does not mean that it was not uttered by Rasoolullah (saw). What it means is that according to the strict rules of linking back to the Prophet (saw) it breaks down in the chain somewhere therefore falling into the Daeef category. They also said that we must remember that the great Imams who collated the Siha Sita (6 authentic books of Ahadith) were incredibly pious Muslims who only accepted a hadith after praying and deep research, therefore they must have seen some truth in it to accept it. Even Imam Malik (rh) in his Muwatta, he often quotes ahadith without neccessarily giving the chain of narration but the Muwatta is still highly regarded and accepted.

    So in essence, we must remember that even if a hadith is categorised a Daeef, we must not outright reject it. In fact my opinion is that all of the Ahadith of Imam Bukhari (rh) can be accepted…it just may be that we do not understand them all. For that we must turn to Allah for guidance.

  67. Assalamu Alaikkum

    Ahmadi Girl and Nemo, I am not entirely convinced about your arguments that only 6 books of Ahadith are authentic and therefore only they should be relied on. But I will try to deal with that in a separate response. The remit of this particular response is to try and prove the issue of “Promised Messiah coming at the beginning of 14th century” with ahadith from the 6 authentic ahadith books and with the help of Qur’an. In fact I am so convinced that 2 Ahadith and a Quranic verse will suffice for those who want to keep an open mind. However one has to use logic and can not simply rely on literal text and understand that Ahadith has no independent existence without Quran.

    Before I try and answer the question I would like to mention something of interest. It is very interesting that this issue has been brought in a topic which says “disbelief is one nation”. The allegation about Ahadith on the 14th Century by Non Ahmadi Ulema and critics are so similar to the allegation about following verse in the Holy Quran by People of the Book:-

    [7:158] Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet, the Immaculate one, whom they find mentioned in the Torah and the Gospel which are with them.

    Muslims, especially Ahmadis, are convinced that the Holy Prophet(SA) is mentioned in Torah and Gospels. Yet there are almost 2 billion people who claim to follow Torah and Gospel don’t believe in him. How so? Some of them even ridicule the above verse and claim that there is no mention of the Holy Prophet (SA) in either of these books. There is no mention by letter, otherwise these people would be compelled to believe in him. But for a muslim or an open minded person the places where he has been mentioned are quite obvious, since they use the reason and logic. Now how unfortunate is is that many from the Ummah of the Holy Prophet(SA) is treading the same path of those who follow Torah and Gospel. They are doing this by rejecting the “reason and logic” part and insist on seeing the ahadith by “letter” when it comes to accepting the ahadith concerning the Promised One(AS). Truly “Disbelief is one nation”.

    As for the proof for the following statement by the Promised Messiah (AS)
    “In many Saheeh Ahadith it is written that the Promised Messiah will arrive at the beginning of a century, and he will be the Reformer of the fourteenth century.”
    (Ruhani Khazain, Volume 21, page 359; lines 11-12)
    First part of the above quote can be cleared by the Hadith in Sunan Abu Dawood,
    “Verily God will appoint for this Ummat in the beginning of every century, one who will restore for it its faith.”
    (Abu Dawood, Kitabul Fitan)
    Since Promised Messiah’s advent is for the restoration of faith for the Ummah (what else could it be?) based on the above Hadith he must be appointed at the beginning of the century.
    In a letter addressed to Maulawi Nur-ud-Din ra, Hadhrat Ahmad as had written on March 8th, 1885, as follows:
    ‘The undersigned author of the Brahin-e-Ahmadiyya has been commissioned by God to try, in the spirit of the Prophet of Nazareth, the Israelite Messiah. …”
    A letter to the same effect was broadcast by Ahmad as in 1884 when the Brahin-e-Ahmadiyya was printed. As already mentioned, it was really in 1882 that he received the first revelation from God which commissioned him as a Reformer. (All these quoted from Life of Ahmad footnotes page 226).
    So the revelation as reformer was at the end of 13th century AH (around 1298/99) and claimed to be the Messiah around 1400/1401.
    He himself wrote that
    “When the 13th century of the Hijra drew to a close and the beginning of the 14th century approached, I was informed by God Almighty, through revelation, that I was the Mujaddid (Reformer) for the 14th century.”
    (Kitabul Bariyya, p. 201)
    In relation to whether the Promised Messiah was to be appointed in 14th Century, the following Hadith from Ibne-Maja provides big guidance,
    “That Ummah can never die which has me at one end, and the Messiah, son of Mary, at the other.”
    (Ibn Maja, Bab Al-I’atisam Bis-Sunnat)
    Of course this Hadith does not mention “by letter” that Messiah will come to the Ummah in the 14th Century. However, with the help of following Quranic verse and a bit of reasoning it becomes abundantly clear that the 14th century can not be any coincidence.
    It says in the Holy Qur’an :-
    Verily, We have sent to you a Messenger, who is a witness over you, even as We sent a Messenger to Pharaoh. [73:16]
    Some of the following points make the reasoning quite easy
    1) As Holy Prophet (SA) was likened to Musa(AS) by Allah, Promised Messiah(AS) has been likened to Isa (AS) by Holy Prophet (SA).
    2) Isa (AS) appeared in the 14th century after Musa(AS); where as Promised Messiah(AS) was informed that he was the likeness of Isa ibn Mariyam (AS) in the 14th century after Holy Prophet(SA).
    3) Isa(AS) was the last to Ma’moor to appear in Musa(AS)’s tradition; where as the Promised Messiah(AS) is the last one to appear in Holy Prophet(SA)’s tradition.
    In addition there are 16 similarities between both Messiahs explained by the Promised Messiah(AS) in his book Tadkiratu Shahdatain ( Narrative of two martyrdoms). http://www.alislam.org/books/tadhkiratush%20shahadatain/narrmart.html
    The remaining Ahadith found amongst the Sihah-e-Sitta ( 6 authentic books) and others strengthens the argument immensely; as mentioned below
    http://www.alislam.org/library/links/00000087.html

    As Promised Messiah (AS) said :-
    “It will be your misfortune if you heed it not. This humble one has come from God with Truth. Signs of Truth you will see on all sides. Time is not far, nay it is very near, when you will see angels in troops descend from heaven, moving men in Asia, in Europe and in America.” (Victory of Islam page 8)
    As to those who still argue, I say the following to them
    [6:6] So they rejected the truth when it came to them; but soon shall come to them the tidings of that at which they mocked.
    ….
    [6:8] And if We had sent down to thee a writing upon parchment and they had felt it with their hands, even then the disbelievers would have surely said, ‘This is nothing but manifest sorcery.’
    [6:9] And they say, ‘Why has not an angel been sent down to him?’ But if We had sent down an angel, the matter would have been settled, and then they would not have been granted a respite.
    [6:10] And if We had appointed as Messenger an angel, We would have made him appear as a man; and thus We would have made confused to them what they are themselves confusing.
    [6:12] Say, ‘Go about in the earth, and see what was the end of those who treated the Prophets as liars.’

    “Disbelief is one nation” indeed

  68. So you have problems with what Haseeb has said about Farhan, despite it not being overtly offensive. But have you ever responded to those who call Masih Maud (AS) and the elders of Ahmadiyyat with so many offensive names in the cult and other website in similar manner?

  69. Firstly can you kindly provide the references regarding the pictures so that we can look into it. We need more than just an accusation to respond. Many of us have stopped reading the Cult and Findings.

    Secondly, you have admitted that Findings practices some unIslamic methods when attacking the Jamaat but you do not vehemently denounce her yet you do so with the so called unIslamic practices of the Jamaat…smells like hypocrisy to me and again proves that you are only interested in winning the arguement rather than upholding Islamic morals.

    Thirdly, you have answered some minor questions but failed on the major ones. So let me break it down. 

    Do you agree with the Ahmadiyya Jamaat viewpoint that according to the Quran Jesus (as) has passed away and will not return in a physical form? If not what is the correct Islamic view based on the Quran, Sunnah and Ahadith…note that we believe that the Quran takes precedence over all other sources if there is a ‘seeming’ contradiction.

    You can write a short article and post it on this blog as a separate subject. The points about the weaknesses of this blog format are valid to some degree but overall we’re interested in hearing your views and i understand that you want to convey to us the ‘truth’, so whatever format is available should not be too concerning because it’s not a big deal at the end of the day.

    We don’t go to the Cult website because frankly we don’t trust the Admin to be fair with us. Over here you have no such concerns. Whether or not Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) is true in his claims is not the purpose of this particular question. I want to know what truth you know that will enable me to progress in my understanding of Islam. I hope you understand where I’m coming from. The question is not about the Ahmadiyya Aqeeda, we already know that, it’s about your Aqeeda and we don’t need to get into a song and dance over it. We just want to hear what you have to say. If you can post your views on all other subjects you are more than capable of posting your views on the life or death of Isa (as)…unless of course you have another excuse to dodge this!

  70. I agree with ‘peace4everynation’. Whether a hadith is ‘sahih’ or not is irrelevant in my mind. If it is claimed it is an authentic narration of the Prophet (saw), it does not contradict anything in the Quran, and it has been so beautifully fulfilled, then why do you need to validate it by making it match up to your own self-made and erroneous standards? The Promised Messiah (as) himself said the authenticity of a hadith should be based on those reasons. The question should be posed to those who now claim this prophecy to be false to prove it: find a contradiction of this hadith in the Quran and we will have to reject it.

  71. To “Muslim First”, “Cylindrical”, “Ahmadigirl” and “Nemo”: I think we’ve established that we believe in these Ahadeeth because so many Mujaddideen, Awliyaa and ‘Ulama of the past testified to the truth of these Ahadeeth in their respective writings, from both the Sunnis and the Shi’ites, and prophesied the coming of the Imam Mahdi, the Messiah, or both, in the 14th Century based on the aforementioned Ahadeeth. The Imam Mahdi himself believed in these Ahadeeth for that same reason, namely that the learned Islamic scholars of the past had faith in them. Why do you not have faith in them? A series of prophetic Ahadeeth which have been upheld by the ‘Ulama and which have come true. They have been fulfilled. So what reason do YOU have for not believing in them? It must be a compelling reason indeed, based on the Qur’an, for it to set you against the opinion and writings of so many pious ‘Ulama and even Mujaddideen of the past. I would like to know it please. Help us to understand why all those ‘Ulama were WRONG.

  72. That’s a cheap shot. I have been discussing here and am still offering an extended discussion. All I’m saying is that we need an other format for a proper discussion. The right tool for the right purpose. Otherwise there’ll just be dozens of comments in this thin format without any chronological order. It’ll be very chaotic. But if you don’t want to, then I guess I’ll limit myself to the occasional comment here. The offer still stands though.

    And no, I don’t agree with everything Findings does nor did I say that. But the accusation stands on firm ground: your Prophet clearly forbade pictures of him being printed, but Ahmadiyya still sells them.

    I have answered all of your questions. I don’t understand the purpose of those questions, but I have answered all of them. I hope you are not trying to prove Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s claim by pointing to the ugly side of the Ummah. Because whatever difficulties the Ummah is facing, they don’t make Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s claim any better. His failed prophecies don’t suddenly become true.

    May Allah (SWT) guide you to Islam.

  73. isn’t it circular to say you believe in the imam mahdi because of these hadith and you believe in these hadith because the imam mahdi said they’re sahih?

  74. umm, how can you say farhan rejects spiritual islam? i’m sorry but that was just [an] unnecessary thing to say. you’re presenting islam as a dichotomy, either you’re intellectual or you’re spiritual.

  75. Cylindrical

    You’ve just proven again that you will take sides with the gossips of Findings, regardless of whether the method used is Islamic or not, that does not seem to concern you nor do you raise any objection against it which is your duty as a Muslim. To me that just shows you have a very long way to go before you can even start to question the Imaan of others. You should have a bit more fear of Allah.

    We try to answer all accusations put to us especially if put to us in a respectful manner. On the other hand people such as yourself run away from all questions put to you by playing the politician and only answering the questions you wanted asked rather than the one actually posed.

    Also By telling us this site is not suitable for the type of debates we’re inviting you to is purely an excuse because you know that you dont have any answers, just questions, which is quite sad for someone inviting others away from their Imaan.

  76. Actually that interpretation is reinforced by the Qur’an itself.

    “And verily, a day with thy Lord is sometimes as a thousand years of your reckoning.” (Surah al-Hajj, Chapter 22, Verse 48)

    “The day when the trumpet will be blown. And on that day We shall gather the sinful together, the blue-eyed. They will talk to one another in a low tone saying, ‘You tarried only ten days.’” (Surah al-Ta Ha, Chapter 20, Verses 103-104)

    The “trumpet” is a metaphor meaning as a trumpet is very loud, a great stir shall occur in the world due to the coming of the Messiah. The Qur’an mentions that there will be 3 trumpets blown that day, and the Bible mentions 7, when the Messiah shall appear on the earth.

    The 10 days signify 10 centuries after Hijrah of the Prophetsa in which the European powers of the world were at the time in a state of dormancy, known to them as “the Dark Ages.” It was only in the beginning of the 17th Century, or approximately 1000 years after the Prophet Muhammadsa preached his message in the 7th Century, that the nations of Europe came out of their hibernation and began to spread over the world and conquer it through colonial imperialism. The Qur’an refers to them as “blue-eyed.”

    I suggest you read this:
    https://theartofmisinformation.wordpress.com/2011/09/03/the-dajjal-2/

  77. SALLAM TO ALL
    have you ever heard the saying “dammed if I do, dammed if I don,t. It,s all a GAME
    there is nothing islamic in any way of form concerning the she-man. sorry cant find any other name appropriate. I promise you all nothing and I mean nothing will suffice it,s all about number,s ,have a look , there blog has lost number,s so they need the she-man back. my people, the people of the holy prophet (saw) the people of the promise messiah(as) leave well alone it.s all a GAME. our aim,s as ahmadi muslims is to spend our precious time in supplication ,and remembrance of allah subhanahu wa ta ala. be steadfast, continue to seek knowledge and be patientand hold on to the rope of allah subhanahu wa ta ala.

    We are the people who never leave god out of fear of the enemy. we do not show insincerity to god out of fear, poverty or sacrifice of wealth. Rather we say……….Surely, to Allah we belong and to Him shall we return. (C.2;V.157)
    LOVE FOR ALL HATRED FOR NONE, Inshallah

  78. I agree with ‘Nemo’ in ALL his statements just above.

    Who better to recognise ‘sahih’ than the Reformer (as) himself, the greatest lover and best student of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw)? And as ‘peace4everynation’ has mentioned already, if a hadith outlines a prophecy that is fulfilled, then it is obviously true.

    I have seen these ‘challenges’. They promise a reward or deal of some sort if the challenge is met, but it is clear that the challengers are convinced in their own minds that no answer exists, hence why they are happy to promise big returns. At the same time they leave no room for a real answer to exist by limiting acceptable responses to the challenge.

    I’m saying now 1+1=2. If somebody comes along and challenges, “What is one plus one? Someone must provide proof somewhere that it is two. Not 2, or deux, or three minus one, but TWO.” Such a challenge cannot be won, but anybody with basic knowledge of mathematics will agree that 1+1= two = 3 minus 1 = 4 divide by 2. My little example may look and sound silly, but to me some of the conditions of these challenges are moreso.

    If you read these challenges as they are written on other websites they are made to look like the biggest scandal to hit Islam in the last fifteen centuries, one without any possible explanation. Then you visit a humble blog site such as this one here and the clear response is stated simply and without the need to plaster it up in lights with a background orchestra. Alhamdullilah this is where I want to be, surrounded by seekers of true knowledge. I pray that Allah the Provider blesses you all with more and more to share with the rest of us.

  79. All I see is a lot of bravado, a lot of talk by Ahmadis how easy it is to refute the points made by us, but I see few refutations. And even the arguments here can easily be picked apart. Where are the sahih ahadith (!) that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad mentioned? Where is the hadith about the eclipse prophecy? Again, a hadith, not a statement by Imam Baqir. What kind of book is An-Najmus Saqih? Where can we find it to verify the authenticity of this hadith?

    And instead of lamely attacking Findings, why don’t you actually try to answer some of the points? Why is your leadership ignoring the words of your OWN PROPHET and selling pictures of him? Did he not instruct his followers to destroy all pictures?

    I have offered you a discussion, because alhamdulillah we have nothing to hide from. Truth has come and falsehood has vanished (17:81). That’d be the falsehood of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Let’s just find a forum built for discussions. You are clearly not comfortable with thecult, so let’s work out something else. Please don’t take this lightly, your akhira is at stake here. May Allah (SWT) guide you to Islam.

  80. I’m debating with my dad now! It’s all about how you interpret it and whether or not you choose to join the un-connected dots!

  81. Thanks! I found the one my dad was referring to (extract below from your link):
    “The best century is the one in which I live, then the next century, then the century after that. Then there will spread falsehood at the hands of people who will take pride in their wealth and riches and will grow fat on the earnings of others.” (Tirmidhi & Bukhari, Kitab Al-Shahadat)
    As foretold in this tradition of the Holy Prophet, Islam began to decline after the first three centuries of uninterrupted conquests and growing prosperity, till it suffered a very serious check in about 271 A.H. when its graded decline and decay continued till it reached its nadir in the next one thousand years that the reference has been made in the Quranic verse:
    “Then shall it go up to Him in a day the duration of which is a thousand years.” (32:6)

  82. Take care AhmadiGirl, you remind me of someone I know 😉 and I’m glad you raised the points here. Thank you to AcidFlow, peace4everynation and artofmisinformation for the responses. If the hadith are not in the 6 Authentic books then I guess the argument will be that “Sahih” (authentic) was implied by the Promised Messiah because he believed the ahadith he was referring to were authentic, not because they necessarily also had to be from one of the 6 authentic books.

  83. Salam to all my Ahmadi brothers and sisters.

    The other blog is a joke. Surprisingly my comments were allowed on the site over the weekend. He/she brags about 50.000 page hits but why was I the only Ahmadi getting through? Anyway I am rather disappointed because half my comments weren’t approved and now they have been blocked in mid discussion. Signs of further cowardice from the cultists. I won’t bother mentioning how many of their members have acted this way towards me in the past. Now they are back to name calling on their forum it seems, how predictable and childish 🙂

    Anyway, it’s a new day, time to move on and find some stronger opponents to discuss Islam with, any recommendations? Just kidding.

    A big big thank you to the opponents of the Jamaat who have helped me increase both my knowledge and love for Islam Ahmadiyya. I pray that other Ahmadis who were weak in their faith like myself are not easily mislead by the misinformation being spread online.

    In the words of the Promised Messiah (as) ” Remember that arrogance is allied to FALSEHOOD. The worst falsehood is that which accompanies arrogance..”

    Wasalams

  84. I will certainly look for the hadith this week and post it across if I can.

    Please forgive me if you disagree, but I would like to respond to one of your comments, namely: She/he/it is a nuisance for the Jama’at. As Ahmadi Muslims we are but the slaves of Almighty Allah and our objective is to attain close proximity to Almighty Allah through winning the love and pleasure of our Almighty Lord. In this day and age, the Prophecised Imam Mahdi and Messiah (‘alayhi al-salam) has been raised from within this Ummah as promised. He has clearly shown us the path which leads us to our ultimate goal. Those websites, authors, books, speakers, television channels, radio programmes, etc., which are specifically designed to hinder Islam Ahmadiyya are never a nuisance to the Jama’at-e-Ahmadiyya – never. They can hurt us as individuals to the utmost extremes, both physically and mentally, but we are only worthless slaves of Almighty Allah and servants of a Jama’at which He (swt) initiated. Therefore, they can never be a nuisance to a Jama’at which was initiated by Almighty Allah. As the Promised Messiah (‘alayhi al-salam) has said in many places, we, the great lovers of Almighty Allah and His Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam), must be ready to shoulder all the abuses and hurt that anyone can inflict upon us out of the love of the Beloved of Almighty Allah (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam).

    Our efforts here on this blog, indeed in every single aspect of our lives, must only be taken in order to win Almighty Allah’s pleasure. When all the cards fall and we reach the end that all men and women reach, the pleasure of Almighty Allah will be our only concern.

  85. That’s all well and good, and I agree with you both. However I think its important for us, the Ahmadis (alhamdolilah) to find the Sahih Hadith, because it is clearly mentioned in RK and there are only 6 formally recognised Sahih Hadith Books. I am certain they are out there, I really just want to find the Hadith and admittedly, it is mostly for my own peace of mind. Please can someone help me find the Sahih Hadith wherein it is written that the Masih will come in the 14th Century? I think if she goes away, it will prove beneficial, I am sure of that too. She/he/it is a nuisance for the Jamaat, and I am sure they will be glad to see the back of her. She is a bully and a coward, and she has routinely hurt so many people. If we can play a part in her keeping to her side of the bargain, then surely this is not a bad thing? Can someone please help me find the ‘sahih’ Hadith?

  86. I agree completely. People will have noticed that at this blog’s inception many of the posts here refuted allegations raised on the Cult. I was never ever concerned by the Cult or their clear expertise in misinformation. Rather, my concern was that random people who did not know about Ahmadiyya might stumble upon that site and have their perception shaped by pure misinformation and deceit. My concern was also that some Ahmadis who have not availed themselves to the opportunities provided to them by the Jama’at for education, may also be fooled by the Cult and a couple of similar sites. This blog naturally evolved, as in accordance with the readership’s demands, into a forum which seeks to address any and all allegations raised against the Imam of the Age (‘alayhi al-salam) and Jama’at (except for the seriously obscene allegations) and to also present posts on various social (tarbiyyat) subjects which Muslims face today.

    With respect to the specific allegations you are talking about, I do agree that they should be addressed. Please post the specific allegations here and I pray that the various people who visit the blog contribute towards the answers. The purpose in answering such questions, however, should always be to help remove misinformation and I personally have no desire or interest in closing down any sites – though I do sincerely pray that Almighty Allah removes all misguidance from the earth..

  87. I don’t believe that shutting down her blog would be an achievement of any kind. Who cares what she is writing? Who even knows if she is a “she”? Who knows who is what they declare they are? Allah certainly knows, and He knows what motivates each and every action.

    Since Day One, the attitude of Ahmadi Muslims has been: You have questions? Ask them. You have allegations to make? Bring them forth; the answers are already here.

    We Ahmadi Muslims have nothing to hide. Every single book of the Imam Mahdi has been available for all to read, and are now also online. In addition to those, his recorded sayings and remarks have been published in 10 volumes, known as Malfoozaat. They too are easily available.

    It is a hallmark of certain non-Ahmadi Muslims that they are obsessed with the categorisation of Ahadeeth, and are constantly neglecting the message contained in many Traditions simply because a number of Hadith scholars of the past had declared them to be Da3eef. Hadith scholars have sometimes differed on the authenticity of a Hadith, according to their own rules and understanding. Often, a true Hadith, something that the Prophet (s.a.) really did utter, is handed down through a chain of narrators, one or two of whom are not considered to be 100% trustworthy.

    How will we know if the saying is true or not? If it does not contravene the Holy Qur’an, there is a chance it is true. But if it is a wonderful prophecy and it is fulfilled, then it is obviously true.

    The nature of hypocrites is revealed by Allah when He states that there are two types of verses in the Qur’an; those that are clear and decisive, and those that are subject to interpretation. Which ones are the people who have a disease in their hearts obsessed with? They are obsessed with those verses which are subject to interpretation, so that they can confuse people and try to turn them away from the Truth.

    The fact that, on the basis of their study of the Qur’an and Ahadeeth, a large number of Mujaddideen, saints and great scholars of the past, both Sunni and Shi’ite, have been in agreement and have written on the fact that the Mahdi or the Messiah, or both, will appear at the completion of 1300 years and at the beginning of the 14th Century should be satisfying enough for those who claim to be Sunni or Shi’ite.

    However, those with diseased hearts – be they Sunni or Shi’ite or whatever – will always close their eyes on all the thousands of signs of Allah’s support shown in favour of the Mahdi, and will keep on rejecting things which are subject to interpretation, whether their ‘Ulama of the past confirmed their authenticity or not.

    Spiritually diseased individuals among the Christians and Jews have forever been challenging Muslims to produce the passages of the Bible that are mentioned in the Holy Qur’an as prophecies of the coming of Islam. They also demand the wording to be exactly that found in the Qur’an. When Muslims tell them these verses are subject to interpretation, they laugh and turn away from Islam. But then, they had already decided in advance that they would never accept Islam anyway, hadn’t they? They only challenge Muslims for the fun of it.

    As I had remarked earlier on, “Disbelief is One Nation.” Diseased people all behave in the same childish ways.

  88. Those Hadith are Da’eef (not authentic) mentioned by MR Acid Flow. The Promised Messiah says “sahih” so we must find it in “Sahih” which means ‘authentic’. Please can you brother show us those places you’ve seen it many times because I wish to take part in this challenge. If we can get her shut down as she has boldly promised, that’s a huge achievement for us, so let us find the ‘sahih’ hadith. Where can we find it?

  89. Read Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim which are online. Sunan Abu Dawud is available partially, and Sunan At-Tirmidhi is available partially as well, but it may take a little bit of effort to find it. So use these sources and learn them well. Then go on to reading Masih-e-Maud (as)’s books. They will make much more sense once you have read from the two Sahihs.

  90. Jazakallah so much for this AcidFlow. This issue has bugged me for sometime and I can now sit back and see what the responses are to this. The “al-miatain” explanation is not that strong I think. The key one for me is “Allah will send the Mahdi after the passage of twelve hundred and forty years.” (Al-Najm al-Thaqib, vol. 2, p. 209, pub. Ahmadi, Patna Mughlapura, ref. Ibn Abi Shibah.) I only wish they could have presented the original Arabic hadith too. I wonder if it’s from the six authentic books of hadith too.

    You’re a knowledgeable one aren’t you! An asian rapper living in north America with a wealth of Islamic/Ahmadi knowledge. Cool! I think I’m becoming a fan 🙂

  91. Ameen. I tried arguing with Farhan before on the issue of Khatam-an-Nabiyyeen but he stuck literally to the Ahadith. Everyone should just try and learn the Arabic language so that they understand more intricacies of the Holy Quran and Ahadith. Some non-Ahmadis focus more on intellectual and bookish arguments and completely reject the spiritual aspect of Islam. Farhan is one of them. I know. So we need all types of people who can respond and give answers which will help them. In the end, just pray for them when you can remember to do so.

  92. Dear Brother theartofmisinformation,

    As-Salaamu ‘alaykum!

    You are absolutely correct. This is in fact a style which which is maintained throughout the Holy Qur’an – highlighting what disbelievers and hypocrites say and do, the kind of arguments they put forward and objections they raise. The point being: Do not be like them.

    Also, the idea is that if perchance you find yourself behaving or talking like the deniers of truth, then you should stop, think, repent, and change your ways.

    What should one answer to the claim that a prophet is a sorcerer or a madman? Or that he is a liar? Or that he is an impostor? Do such claims deserve any reply? Viewed from one angle, they do not.

    The Qur’an tells us that these are precisely the claims made by the previous deniers of prophets, and that all prophets before him were mocked and ridiculed in this way; the logic being that this realisation should be sufficient for a seeker of truth to confidently dismiss such silly allegations.

    However, Allah does give seekers of truth something more to think about. For example, He reminds the deniers that the prophet has lived a whole life with them before this. They know him very well. Even his enemies can vouch that his life prior to his claim to prophethood was without blemish.

    Secondly, Allah reminds them that the prophet is asking for no payment or reward for preaching the message to them. So he clearly has nothing material to gain from it. Yet, he continues to teach.

    Thirdly, He says that not only is the prophet not receiving any remuneration for his preaching, on the contrary, he is being put through the fire of persecution and torment. He has everything to lose by persisting in his preaching. Even so, his resolution to teach and guide is undiminished.

    Fourthly, Allah says that what the prophet speaks about is based on pure divine revelation. The knowledge presented in his revelations clearly does not emanate from any human being.Whether it is prophecies regarding the near or distant future, or information about peoples of the past buried in the sands of time, or scientific facts, all are clearly beyond the ken of human beings.

    Fifthly, Allah reminds us that He is showing great signs of His support and miracles for His messenger, and is granting him victories despite all the odds.

    There are several such facts presented by Allah in the Noble Qur’an which effectively nullify all the ridicule and mockery of the enemies of a prophet, without addressing them directly, for they do not usually deserve to be taken into consideration.

    Instead, Allah presents His version of the facts as against the laughable allegations raised by disbelievers, for intelligent and God-fearing seekers of truth to judge between the two.

    As far as Dawkins’ statement is concerned, it would suffice to say that the Qur’an encourages people to reflect and use their intelligence more times than it invites them to pray. The Promised Messiah (pbuh) came to liberate people from taqlid – blindly and unthinkingly following their religious or other leaders – and instead to provide them with a rational view of religion.

    Islam came to unite all people giving the message that all people are equal, men and women are equal, all are creatures of the One God; and all having been blessed with messengers in the past they are now being called to unite as one community under the Last law-bearing Prophet, Muhammad al-Mustafa (s.a.)

    In addition, true Islam offers the hand of friendship, tolerance, cooperation and love to all who prefer not to be Muslims. It is anything but divisive. Similarly, the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama’at was created so that Muslims of all sects could unite under one Imam, the Imam Mahdi (a.s.) and be rid of all their innovations, superstition, grave- and saint-worship, unscientific interpretations and unhealthy inclinations towards the material world. It is here to unite, not to divide further. And indeed, Muslims of every denomination co-exist harmoniously and lovingly in this Jama’at, with one vision, one direction and one world leader.

    The message of peace and philanthropy of true Islam, both in word and in action, is so compelling that even non-Muslims are forced to express their admiration for it. It is the antithesis of danger.

    And most importantly, the decisive argument which it puts forward which does away with every single objection raised by atheists (or non-Ahmadi and non-Muslim theists for that matter) is that in this Jama’at, God is showing how He communicates His knowledge of the future to hundreds of thousands of individuals, women and men, young and old, on every continent. This is happening so regularly that it would be very unscientific to disregard all the data proving that an intelligence way above that of human beings not only exists but is actually interacting with us.

    Much more can be said on these topics, and I am sure that many contributors would like to add their own valuable points to this important discussion.

  93. And yes I’ve seen the Hadith about the Mahdi and Messiah appearing in the 14th Century many, many times in various books of Ahadith.

    Bro, start researching on your own rather than listening to the misinformation spewed by the cultists. They will try anything, even outright lying, to discredit the Jama’ah in any way possible.

  94. Jazak Allah. I do not think the person who sent this in to me intended for it to act as a response to a specific allegation, but rather to share something he felt was thought provoking. The Qur’an itself often talks about different groups of people which share common traits. The point about Dawkins is itself a very valid one and I will endeavor to draft something, unless you, or even the author of this post cares to?

  95. It would have been nice to read a response to the allegations raised by the atheist Richard Dawkins rather than to draw parallels between his argument and the arguments of non-Ahmadi Muslims against Ahmadi Muslims. As apt comparisons as they may be, no allegations were actually answered in this post!

  96. Salam AhmadGirl 😉
    I am most eagerly following what’s going on. And I really hope an answer (official or unofficial) gets published online somewhere for all to see (some might say it’s no good an email being sent in to her which she might decide not to run with). I was asking my Dad about the whole 14th century hadith, he is convinced it exists! Something about an era followed by another few hundred years (which works out to the 14th century)…..I want to see not only the answer to the challenges but also those hadith as much as you! Anyone not following, the hadith we would like to see the ones the Promised Messiah(as) mentioned here:

    “In many Saheeh Ahadith it is written that the Promised Messiah will arrive at the beginning of a century, and he will be the Reformer of the fourteenth century.”
    (Ruhani Khazain, Volume 21, page 359; lines 11-12)

  97. That’s true, she does talk drivel but so does Farhan they just adopt different stands. Farhan is theological and Cult Queen is gossip-illogical 😉 Its not about what they are saying as such I am talking about, I would like to try and answer the challenges. It will satisfy my doubts and the doubts of other Ahmadis too. Maybe we should all get together and research; we should not shy away from showing everyone the truth of our beloved Imam Masih Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Just a thought?

  98. It is quite amazing how few of the Culties have come to this blog and presented answers to our questions. On their sites many Ahmadis step up and face their accusations with courage. The Culties have shown clearly that they are not interested in searching for answers but are morally so degraded that they don’t mind stepping on the truth so long as they win their arguments.

    In front of truth, falsehood vanishes. This site has proven that in my opinion. They are weak in arguements, intellect and faith in God…if they can openly take sides with what is clearly wrong then their faith in God is very suspect in my opinion.

  99. It’s not worth worrying about her at all.

    Remember, Hazrat Isa (as) had 12 disciples, and even one of them secretly betrayed him. So if a Prophet of Allah (swt) can have one of his nearest disciples betray him, then why does it surprise you that this unfortunate girl is doing the same–and like Judas–thinking she’s doing a good thing?

    And don’t let me flatter her, she’s no Judas. At least Judas was finally open in his opposition. She doesn’t even have the courage to do that. My response to her is 25:64.

  100. It’s all gossip and extrapolations based on assumptions. There is no Islam, in what she writes, at least Farhan of the cult had little more decency not to get directly involved, though on the other hand he promoted it highly. I pray for Farhan, that may Allah who has the ability to change hearts, may He guide him.

    Anyway, it seems all the cultees have is the gossip queen site. To be honest, there is something positive about that site, any neutral non Ahmadi Muslim who sees this will quickly realize the filthy attitude these lot have adopted.

  101. Can we all get together and answer the challenges on that crazy cult girls website? What do you think?

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