Refutation: Cult Stories (Updated)

Assalamu ‘Alaikum Warahmat Allah Wabarakatuh

Time to exhale… I have, for sometime now, been restrained in what I could write here by the shackles of life’s everyday commitments. Today I find myself free and eager to push out a few things I have been meaning to look at for some time now. One thing on my list is to write a response to a cross-reference of posts written by the user ”Farhan” across at the Cult. I must admit that I once held a good opinion of Farhan Sahib, as is in line with our tradition, despite disagreeing with his opinions regarding the Jama’at. As of late my mind has been swayed towards a different viewpoint on the basis of his expressed views. What has concerned me is that at one time Farhan Sahib seemed intent on trying to prove the falsehood of Ahmadiyya through a reasoned and apparently kind approach. His recent posts have indicated a completely different side to his approach.

At the outset I should make clear that my dislike is for the substance and approach of his highly suspect argumentation and not him personally (love the man, dislike the argument). In fact, I urge all those reading this post to join me in praying for brother Farhan; that Almighty Allah blesses him to accept the Imam Mahdi (‘alayhi al-salam) and fulfill the instruction of the Holy Prophet (sal Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) in this regard. I will deal with a number of posts here briefly, but am quite willing to expand on any point of contention anyone has.

  • Post 1: Suhaib Webb’s Blog
  • Post 2: The False Prophets (x4)
  • Post 3: Some Terminology Changes
  • Post 4: Confessions Post
  • Post 5: What if the Prophet Came to You?
  • Post 6: What is a Cult?
  • Post 7: Is the Ahmadi Leadership a System of Khilafah?
  • Post 8: To Jamia Ahmadiyya Students: Independent Authority
  • Post 9: True vs Fake Spirituality

Post 1: Suhaib Webb’s Blog (see Confessions Post below)

Post 2: The False Prophets (x4)

Here Farhan has written four posts which outline the claims of the four famous false claimants to Prophethood during early Islam. No connection whatsoever can be drawn between these false claims and the true claim of Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (‘alayhi al-sama). An utterly fictitious connection is attempted at here – extraordinarily poor. These people either claimed to be independent Prophets to the Holy Prophet (sall’ Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) or wanted to be co-prophets with the Holy Prophet (sal Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam). Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (‘alayhi al-salam) did not claim this. I don’t know how more simply I could put it. Disagree with Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (‘alayhi al-salam), that is your choice, but please do not deceive people through erroneous comparisons. Brother Lutf has dealt with this allegation here.

Post 3: Some Terminology Changes

This is perhaps the most worrying of all his posts. In this quite shocking post, Farhan Sahib attempts to draw some outragiously ”fictitious” comparisons regarding the usage of certain terms and names in Islam and Ahmadiyya. A simple example will suffice to show the deceit contained therein. Apparently, according to Farhan Sahib, while the name ”Ahmad” refers to the Holy Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) within the Islam usage, it refers to Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (‘alayhi al-salam) in the Ahmadi vocabulary. Firstly, this is patently untrue (where is your evidence Farhan Sahib?) – even the most hardened heart would acknowledge this much. Secondly, did the author fail to recognise that the Promised Messiah (‘alayhi al-salam) is called GHULAM Ahmad (Servant of Ahmad). Using the same poor methodology, perhaps he will write a post in the future about how ”those Hanbalis” are as bad as the ”Qadianis” for referring to their Sahib al-Madhhab as Imam Ahmad – the shame! Brother Lutf has quite easily disposed of this here. I find it difficult to accept that Farhan Sahib, someone who has in the past attempted to engage with the classical texts, would not be able to do a five second Al Islam search to discover that Ahmadis very clear attribute the name Ahmad to the Holy Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam)

Post 4: Confessions Post

Here Farhan Sahib boasts about a new site which he obviously supports and advocates (bolstered by his comments on that site). The site apparantly brings to light damning information about the Jama’at. The reality is that it is nothing more than a malicious gossip (namimah), backbiting (ghibah) and suspicion filled blog. But hey, lets not let un-Islamic filth prevent a bit of Qadiani bashing. Farhan Sahib did, however, try to valiantly justify theft, gossiping and backbiting by citing the story of Nu’aym b. Mas’ud during the battle of Khandaq. In short, a Sahabi (radi Allahu ‘anhu) played a trick on some of the opponents of Islam in order to divide them. His conclusion was: ”Lesson learned: One Muslim on the inside can bring great benefit to the Muslims.”

So lets break his contention down. He compares the situation of a thief and gossip monger, who is free to live her/his life as he/she wishes, with that of a group of Muslims who were, as in Farhan Sahib’s own words:  ”… under siege by Quraysh and betrayed by Banu Quraydha, one of the main Jewish tribes in Madinah that was in an alliance with the Muslims. After a month’s siege with little food and overwhelming odds, the Muslims were in a desperate state.”  Is it just me, or is this yet another attempt to abuse the dignity and struggles of our heroes by using their hardship to justify acts (theft and gossip) forbidden by Almighty Allah and His beloved Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam)?

You will notice that under ”Post 1” above, I asked you to refer to this post. This is because in ”Post 1” Farhan Sahib has directed Ahmadis and non-Ahmadis alike to look towards the respected Azhari Shaykh, Suhayb Webb, for spiritual nourishment. The irony is that the very fabric of what his posts, blog and forum stand for, particularly in this ”Confessions Post”, are very strongly criticised by the same Shaykh Suhayb Webb at the site he directed people towards (here). Therefore, if he does not want to adhere to the clear instructions of the Qur’an and Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam), he should at least follow his own advice. Incidentally, respected Shaykh Webb includes the following on his blog (sound familiar?):

”…many young Muslims youth throw accusations against Muslim scholars, spend hours online insulting Sunnis,Shi`ites, Ikhwanis, Sufis, Salafis, Tableeghis, Deobandis, and every other flavor of the Muslim spectrum one can imagine. Many actually dedicate a portion of their day updating their Facebook status, insulting so-and-so through a clever blog post, warning others, listing out their faults – all this with the conviction they have “enjoined the good and forbidden the evil!” And don’t deny it, many of us cannot resist commenting on websites, or Facebook statuses, where our Islamic political, social, economic, creedal, and legal opinions – usually set in stone – are MORE sacred than the other because “we learned it from a teacher.” Yet the majority of us did not have any formal, conclusive training in the Islamic sciences – which even if we had, would not justify the bitter tone and behavior.  As Imam Suhaib Webb says, “We are like firemen arguing about what hose to use, while the house burns down.”

What we must realize is that when we take part in this culture of debate, arguing, than arguing again, day after day after day, we are slowly devastating our own hearts. On social networks we feel a rush of adrenaline waiting for the counter-argument or foreign person to respond. We create intellectual forums then wait like vultures to check another person’s clearly messed up thinking to respond back with a counter-proof: “That’ll show them!” That AWESOME feeling after a lengthy response is not enjoining good or even productive: we are simply letting OUR nufoos (our souls and desires) tear apart the heart and run wild to see if they can prove ascendancy over someone else.”

(Jazaka Mullah to brother Peaceworld for sending me that link on twitter)

Post 5: What if the Prophet Came to You?

Here Farhan Sahib asks the question: What would you do if the Prophet came to you and said “I am the Seal of the Prophets, there is no prophet after him.” I fail to see the benefit in this question. Ahmadis are the great lovers of the Beloved of Almighty Allah (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) and would give their lives to protect his blessed dignity – so he should not worry how we would respond to the Holy Prophet. Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (‘alayhi al-salam) has magnificently set out the Ahmadi standard with regards to Almighty Allah when he wrote:

‘’Obedience to the Creator means that in order to make manifest His Honour, Glory and Unity, one should be ready to endure every dishonour and humiliation, and one should be eager to undergo a thousand deaths in order to uphold His Unity. One hand should be ready to cut off the other with pleasure in obedience to Him, and the love of the grandeur of His commandments and the thirst for seeking His pleasure should make sin
so hateful as if it were a consuming fire, or a fatal poison, or an obliterating lightning, from which one must run away with all one’s power. For seeking His pleasure one must surrender all the desires of one’s ego; and to establish a relationship with Him one should be ready to endure all kinds of injuries; and to prove such relationship one must break off all other relationships.”  (Aina-e-kamalat-e-Islam, Ruhani Khaza’in, 5:59-62)

And regarding the Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) he has written:

Verily, my head and my life

I freely offer as a sacrifice

For the blessed dust

Underneath his feet;

And my devoted heart,

Every moment,

is offeringItself at the altar.

(Persian Poem, The Light of Muhammad)

He would perhaps be best advised to rather consider how he has responded to the Holy Prophet’s instruction that each Muslim must offer their bay’ah at the hand of the Imam al-Mahdi. Or, as Rehan Qayoom Sahib aptly put it to Farhan Sahib:

What if the Holy Prophet [sal Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam] came to you and said that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was the Promised Messiah and Mahdi and that you should accept him?

Post 6: What is a Cult?

A wild and highly speculative attempt is here made by Farhan Sahib to prove that Islam Ahmadiyya is a ”CULT.” To cut to the chase, he offers the following seven characteristics of a cult which he tries to prove are each present in the Jama’at. This attempt goes a bit like this:

Psychologist Philip G. Zimbardo identified four primary factors that distinguish a cult from a regular religion, upon which Mitch Horowitz appended two;

  1. Behavior control, such as monitoring of where you go and what you do (ie, Umumi)
  2. Information control, such as discouraging members from reading criticism of the group (ie, Facebook Ban);
  3. Thought control, placing sharp limits on doctrinal questioning;
  4. Emotional control, using humiliation or guilt (ie public humiliations and ex-communications);
  5. Financial control, either through mandatory payments or full disclosure of financial information (the various kinds of Chanda payments);
  6. Extreme leadership, such as excessively revering the leader (Impermissibility of disagreeing with Mirza Masroor).

Personally, I would add another characteristic, feel free to disagree;

  1. To instill a siege-mentality in devotees used to keep them emotionally connected to the movement, thus overlooking logical or factual errors – we observe this in Scientology, the Branch Davidians, and the Jonestown saga.

I will here take up Farhan Sahib’s offer and ”feel free to disagree”, profusely disagree, in fact. My response is as follows:

  1. The responsibility of the ‘Umumi department is to ensure people’s safety. Look up classical Islam and see what the ”muhasib” used to do during the life of the Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam). Take, for example, the Prophet’s very own Aunty (radi Allahu ‘anha) who used to walk the markets with a whip in her hand in order to command good and forbid evil (amr bil-ma’ruf wa nahi ‘an al-munkar). This was normally a job restricted to the markets and many other similar roles were present in other areas. Having held many Jama’at positions over the years, and observed many people in positions of authority, I can honestly say that I have never seen any behaviour control in the way that Farhan Sahib has inferred. The problem is that he has clearly written about something on the basis of third-hand information and not his own personal experience.
  2. You claim that Ahmadis are forbidden or discouraged from reading any criticism of the Jama’at, yet just about every Khutbah delivered my beloved Hudur (ayyadahu Allah ta’ala bi-nasrihi al-‘aziz) recently has called upon Ahmadis to refute the allegations leveled against the Jama’at. Please explain to me how an Ahmadi can fulfill this instruction if they are not allowed to read the allegations? One word – ”nonsensical.” I do agree in part, however, in that Ahmadis should not read your blog as it does not demonstrate a sincere attempt to challenge Islam Ahmadiyya (though that did seem to be your approach some time in the past – long ago).
  3. Thought Control by discouraging doctrinal questioning??? Again, something written by someone with little experience of the actual Jama’at. Each country generally has a Mufti Silsilah that anyone can write to. The Jama’at has a very active Dar al-Ifta’ in Rabwah which all and sundry are free to write to for fatwas. Senior Missionaries tour each country and hold countless question and answer sessions (dozens of examples on youtube). The Jama’at has a completely anonymous ”Islamic FAQ” website to which anyone can address their questions. MTA programmes like al-Hiwar al-Mubashir and Rah-e-Huda are there to answer any question. Finally, and most importantly, the Khalifah’s door is always open to all. Quite honestly, I do not know what more the Jama’at could do other than send Missionaries to knock on every door and beg people to offer their questions. Then again, if it did that, then some post would probably end on Farhan Sahib’s blog about chanda or fuel expenses (anything, everything – it doesn’t really matter as long as it takes a dig at the Jama’at).
  4. Emotional Control: Where is the evidence for this? I am quite happy emotionally – thank you very much! My local President and Qaids do call me up regularly to see how I am and ask if they can help me at all – does this constitute emotional control? Again, I suspect he has drawn this conclusion due to the number of bitter ex-Ahmadis circling around in his bubble.
  5. Financial constraints. Your criticism is really applicable to almost every Islamic entity to have ever existed in history. Anyhow, if it really does in fact need a reply, it has already been answered here.
  6. Where is the evidence for the sixth accusation? It feels like Farhan Sahib is just making it up as he goes along.
  7. Again, where is the evidence? If we do not defend our position then we are labelled cowards and stupid. Yet if we defend our position we have shackled to us the title ”siege-mentality.”

Much conjecture and little fact. I believe a pattern is emerging here?

Post 7: Is the Ahmadi Leadership a System of Khilafah?

Factually innacurate. Answered here.

Post 8: To Jamia Ahmadiyya Students: Independent Authority

Responded to here


Post 9: True vs Fake Spirituality

The mere inference that Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (‘alayhi al-salam) insulted Hadrat Abu Bakr (radi Allahu ‘anhu) smacks, again, of someone who has no real understanding of the writings of Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (‘alayhi al-salam) and should be dealt with here. Outside of writing a whole book in defence of Hadrat Abu Bakr (radi ‘Allahu ‘anhu) against the Rafida (Shi’ah), where he also penned the most beautiful poem in praise of Abu Bakr (radi Allahu ‘anhu), he has also written:

‘And I have been told that the Siddique (Abu Bakr (ra)) was the greatest in rank and the highest in station of all of the Companions’ (Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Sirrul Khilafah p.18)
”When the love of the True Divine saturated the whole of his being and its light began to manifest itself in all his actions and words and his attitudes, he was named the Siddique and he was invested with fresh and deep knowledge from the Presence of the Best of Bestowers. Faithfulness became his nature and its effects made themselves manifest in all his doings and sayings and movings and stoppings and in his senses and in his pure breath. He was included among those upon whom the Lord of the heavens and the earth had bestowed His favours. The truth is that he was a comprehensive illustration of the book of prophethood. He was a leader of those who are recipients of grace and perfection and had partaken of the nature of the Prophet. In stating this I have not been guilty of exaggeration, nor is my statement merely the result of my wishful thinking but is a reality which has been disclosed to me from the Presence of the Lord of Honour.’ (Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Sirrul Khilafah. pp.31-32)

If these statements were not enough to put down Farhan Sahib’s vile allegation, then let us address what the Imam of the Age (‘alayhi al-salam) in fact said about Abu Bakr’s (radi Allahu ‘anhu) spiritual station:

‘…all the doors leading to Prophethood have been closed except the door of Sirat as-Siddiqi, i.e., losing oneself in the Holy Prophet.’ (Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. A Misunderstanding Removed. Pg.4)

This statement very clearly shows that one cannot hope to attain the highest spiritual rank until he / she approaches our beloved Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) upon Hadrat Abu Bakr’s (radi Allahu ‘anhu) blessed pattern. Fana’ (annihilation) is not as literal as Farhan Sahib has stated and this is evidenced in the books of the great Sufis themselves. Secondly, it is not befitting of any Muslim to discuss the spiritual ranks of this Saint and that Saint, this Prophet and that Prophet, unless the difference has been established by Almighty Allah (for example, the station of Hadrat Abd al-Qadir al-Jilani rahmat Allah ‘alayhi).

Next, Farhan Sahib, the untenable statement about agrandisement. When Almighty Allah appoints someone to a position and they are ma’mur, and it is incumbant upon them to make this known to the world. The hands and mouth of the Saintly person are left with no choice in this matter. Whereas, when someone is not ma’mur there is no obligation upon them to announce anything to the world. The statements of Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (‘alayhi al-salam) regarding his status are almost always repetition of revelation bestowed upon his by Almighty Allah and not his own opinions. With regards to his actual claim, Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (‘alayhi al-salam) has written:

”…it must be borne in mind and should never be forgotten, that, despite being addressed as Nabi and Rasul, I have been informed by God that this bounty has not descended upon me directly. There is a holy being in heaven whose spiritual grace is with me and he is Muhammad, the Chosen One(sa). It is on the basis of this relationship, and by merging myself in him, and by receiving his names—Muhammad and Ahmad (sa) – that I am a  Rasul as well as  Nabi, which, in other words, means that I have been commissioned by God and I receive knowledge of the unseen from Him. Thus the Seal of  Khatamun Nabiyyin remains intact, for I have received his name by way of reflection and Zill, through the mirror of love. If anyone takes offence as to why Divine revelation has addressed me as Nabi and Rasul, it would be foolish of him to do so, for my being a  Nabi and Rasul does not break the Seal set by God…
This notion is strongly supported by the words which the Holy Prophet (sa) used in describing his relationship with the Promised Mahdi (as), for he went so far as to give him his own name. This clearly signifies that the Holy Prophet (sa) wished to describe the Promised One as his own  Buruz, just as Joshua was the Buruz of Hadrat Moses (as). And it is by no means necessary for the  Buruz to be the son or grandson of Sahib-i-Buruz. What is essential is that, in respect of spiritual relationship, the  Buruz must have emerged from  Sahibi Buruz, and this mutual gravitation and relationship between the two must have been ordained from the very beginning” (A Misconception Removed).

Spirituality. Farhan Sahib, if you truly find no benefit in the words of Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (‘alayhi al-salam), then please call London and arrange a Mulaqat with my beloved Hudur (ayyadahu Allah ta’ala bi-nasrihi al-‘aziz) and you will meet a man wholly devoted to Almighty Allah. Listen to his speeches delivered at the last Jalsa Salana and then try to establish from them that there is no true spirituality in the Jama’at. This is a Divinely ordained Jama’at which, admitedly, is made up of men and women who are each prone to human error – this was even so amongst the community of the Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam), though the Companions are our heros and guiding stars. Having said that, there is a term which I would like to coin as ”Ahmadi Passion” which is ever present and charged with the intense love for Almighty Allah, His Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam), all of His Prophets (alayhim al-salam), the Imam al-Mahdi (‘alayhi al-salam), whose claim is clearly stated above, and all of the Saintly people of history. Come to the UK, be our guest and let us show you the love and beauty of Ahmadiyyat. Our faith will remain strong that Almighty Allah can, if He so wishes, change your heart, and the hearts of all those like you, towards the acceptance of the Imam of this age. Please actually sit and talk to people who actually have conviction in Ahmadiyya and stop relying upon the whispers of faceless bitter Ahmadis. Stop taking information from people who use fould language and steal information which they have no right over. Imam al-Bukhari (rahmat Allah ‘Alayhi) once refused to take a hadith from a man who he saw teasing one of his animals, yet you, someone who reveres Imam al-Bukhari, accept information from people who use abusive language and steal. If I may, I advise you to look at your own methodology before again questioning anybody else.


In another post Farhan Sahib very aptly writes:

But, this got me thinking, is TheCult spreading hatred against Ahmadis? Are we Anti-Ahmadiyya? Are we a hate group? This is a claim that is often levied against this blog.

Lets discuss…

What is the purpose of TheCult? In short, we are a group of Muslims who have come together to call our misguided sisters and brothers from the Ahmadiyya religion back to Islam. In other words, we want our dear brethren back. In doing so, we draw attention to flaws in Ahmadiyya beliefs, factual inaccuracies of the faith, and the unquestionable superiority of Islam over Ahmadiyya.

But, couldn’t this blog be difficult or even painful to read for an Ahmadi?

Well brother Farhan, I do agree that your blog makes for painful reading, but not for the reasons that you might have hoped for. It gained a now diminishing popularity due to the absolute fact that it calls out to man’s weakness for gossip. As has been shown, your blog contains little ”fact” and mixes any remnants of truth with hatred, ultra-subjectivity, and suspicion. In short, I think you had better revisit your question: ”…is TheCult spreading hatred against Ahmadis?” In my opinion you obviously are as clear misinformation is itself the seed of hate (something you have been sowing).

My advice to all is don’t waste your precious time reading anything on that blog. If someone has an issue, read proper texts on the subject and then address your concerns to ANYONE except for any group of faceless individuals who have no objectivity and have the following as their starting point: ”…to call our misguided sisters and brothers from the Ahmadiyya religion back to Islam.” I am still amazed at how anyone would entrust their Iman, the most valuable commodity we have, to a group of highly suspect people. Be smart and do not hold your Iman with such little regard.

Anyone is very welcome to contact me. I am not here to judge sincere Ahmadis or non-Ahmadis with genuine questions. I really am a friend and not an adversary.


27 thoughts on “Refutation: Cult Stories (Updated)

  1. [APOLOGIES – This went straight to spam for some reason]

    What you believe or don’t believe is irrelevant. Allah (SWT) clearly declares war on anyone consuming interest and Ahmadiyya IS consuming interest.

    Your other excuses do not hold up to scrutiny. Fact is that many banks offer interest free business accounts for charities. Example:

    I don’t know if using an interest free business account has any negative effects with regards to tax, but so what? Even if you have to pay more tax, following Allah (SWT) clear-cut command takes precedence, don’t you agree?

    The article itself states that your leaders preach against interest, but why don’t they practice it then? Words mean nothing if you can’t back them up with actions.

    Do you have any more excuses up your sleeve or are you finally going to admit that Ahmadiyya is not following Islam? This is a grave breach of Allah’s commandments. Ponder on this.

    Btw, I don’t have any concerns at all, I’m merely stating facts. How is that biased, bitter and unreasonable? I do hope you will not run away from this discussion and allow my post this time.

  2. Not at all. The fact of the matter is, I have no reason to believe that my beloved Jama’at is waging war against Almighty Allah and His Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam). You, however, do seem to think that and so you are more than welcome to pursue this matter further – all the more power to you. Lots of Shari’ah-compliant companies and organisations have interest on their financial statements and they pay that money to charity after the year end accounts so that they do not benefit from that interest one jot. The financial world is not as monotone as you make it out to be.

    Furthermore, lots of Ahmadis are pioneers in the Islamic finance market, with the first Islamic bank being established by an Ahmadi Muslim, and the Jama’at has certainly discussed the various mechanisms that could be introduced when the world market is ready for that. Hadrat Khalifatul Masih IV (rahmat Allah ‘alayhi) had some quite unique ideas about how shari’ah-compliant finance could be implemented through venture capital investments which would lead to a self-sustained mortgage infrastructure. Even our youth are very interested in this area and on alislam you will find a whole dissertation on the subjected.

    Lastly, please do not confuse the fact that I am quite secure in my trust of the Jama’at with me being reliant on the Cult. The only thing I can very firmly rely upon the Cult for is its consistent and unwavering demonstration of how biased, bitter and unreasonable many of the opponents of the Jama’at can be. This particular story is a case in point.

    Jazak Allah, do let me know if you hear back on this matter.

  3. I don’t feel that you have been fair in your assumptions, and they can only be assumptions. The Cult article takes a single entry in three financial statements and basis a whole article around that. Tax law and financial accounting is not as simple as you have stated – and becomes even more difficult given the strict charity laws and regulations that must be adhered to.

    Our beloved Hudur (ayyadahu Allah ta’ala bi-nasrihi al-‘aziz) has continuously called upon Ahmadi Muslims to avoid riba in all instances except for absolute necessity. One example of his guidance on this subject can be found here.

    Put simply, you seem to have jumped the gun on this one. Nevertheless, there is no harm in asking the question and you are welcome to put your concerns in writing to my beloved Khalifah (ayyadahu Allah ta’ala bi-nasrihi al-‘aziz) and I would be more than happy to post your findings here provided that my beloved Hudur had no objection to that.

    Jazak Allah

  4. So Ahmadiyya’s actions are now depened on the actions of people at the cult? Are you not supposed to revive and reform Islam? If anything you should be the leaders and pioneers with regards to islamic banking. You should be the one actively encouraging people to choose interest-free accounts. But here you are, making lame excuses for the saved sect of Islam waging a war against Allah (SWT) and His Messenger (SAW).

    I don’t think you understand the gravity of this situation. I urge you to read Surah Baqarah verse 275-279 and ponder on it. And insha’Allah you will realise that Ahmadiyya is not following Islam.

  5. “Simply to assert one is not following the true teachings of Islam because they have taken automated interest for the purposes of producing Islamic literature in today’s complex intermixed banking system is a very unjust claim.”

    It’s actually very simple, as the article on states. Many banks offer interest free business accounts. There’s your solution. You are trying to justify Ahmadiyya’s actions through the back door by claiming that this system is so complex, that Ahmadiyya simply had no choice. But it really isn’t. Even if you don’t understand the system, what matters is your intention.

  6. JazakaAllah Peaceworld

    Continuing my line of thought regarding solutions, Those who accuse the Jamaat of consuming interest should firstly tell us if they personally hold a bank account. If so, do they give and receive interest on the funds stored with their bank. If they do, what do they do with the interest received…and how do they stop the bank from taking interest from them?

    I once attended a lecture on Islamic Banking. The speaker, who was a Director of an Islamic bank openly stated that the current Islamic Banking model is a cheap replica of the Western Capitalism model and requires a lot more work for it to become truely Islamic.

    Those who pose these questions need to come up with solutions to this problem as the Jamaat will not be the only ones struggling with Ribba but the whole Ummah is in this struggle. Even in the ‘Islamic’ countries, avoiding Ribba is a struggle unless you place all your funds under your pillow at night and carry it around during the day. (That’s no solution btw)

    I’m not sure what the Cult article states but I wonder what Fatawa have been given by the Imams they look upto on this matter, and do all the Cult people manage to avoid Ribba? They should give their personal examples to prove the point and present a solid framework to help the Ummah avoid this abomination. Otherwise they’re just throwing stones from glass houses which benefits the Ummah not an iota.

    I’m not sure what the Jammat does with the Interest on it’s funds but if its used purely for the propagation of Islam or distribution to the needy, I would much rather prefer that than doing nothing but recieve.

  7. Dear Cylinderical, I am (at the moment) unable and not in the position to answer your question due to my dim understanding of the technicalities involved in the Islamic and the Western financial system. This becomes particularly complex when one tries to follow Islamic methods, when the financial system is heavily dominated by non-Islamic banking. Simply to assert one is not following the true teachings of Islam because they have taken automated interest for the purposes of producing Islamic literature in today’s complex intermixed banking system is a very unjust claim.

    Just because we have banks offering “Islamic banking” doesn’t necessarily make them Islamic. There are differing views on this concept among the non-Ahmadi Muslims as well. I am not saying they are not Islamic as I am not in the position to judge that.

    Moreover, you said “But how many Ahmadis know that their own Jamaat is consuming interest?” and “Do you see now why so many call Ahmadiyya a money-making scheme?” when you realize no Ahmadi is “consuming” or “making” money out this, when the money is simply being used for the purposes of propagation of Islam rather than (if I know anything about interest) it being kept by the bank as profit for themselves. Please be Just.

    @Ibne Khalid,

    Dear brother he is referring to the article entitled “Ahmadiyya and Ribaa” at the cult.


  8. Dear cylindrical

    I’d be interested to see this Ribaa post you refer to as I have not come across it. I’m sure you have raised interesting questions that require discussion however one thing I would ask all who raise questions is, what would you do that would be different if put in that position? Surely you must have a solution in mind that conforms with Islam and the realities of the world, hence you have raised the issue…if however you don’t have a solution then perhaps there is a need to think through such things before accusing anyone. May Allah be with you.

  9. Jazak Allah for your response and thoughts. The responses I penned here are not at all designed to defeat Farhan and the anti-Ahmadis. It is simply to show that time and time again he has attacked Ahmadiyya in a very suspect and dishonest way. This much is obvious.

    You are right, these are not the core issues. The status of Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (‘alayhi al-salam) as a Zilli Prophet, the Imam al-Mahdi and Promised Messiah, coupled with our belief concerning the death of Hadrat Jesus (‘alayhi al-salam), are the key issues. Happy to discuss these at any time.

  10. i’m a questioning ahmadi who feels comfortable calling himself sunni and i agree with most of this post and that means absolutely nothing because these are only minor issues that farhan raised. they’re more like food for thought for questioning ahmadis, not arguments that if refuted, ahmadiyya is true.

  11. No, not really. But these are trivial matters compared to ribaa. The prohibition of ribaa is a fundamental part of Islam, every Muslim (incl. Ahmadi) knows that. But how many Ahmadis know that their own Jamaat is consuming interest?

    I mean think about it: Ahmadiyya claims to be the saved sect, the reviver of Islam, but at the same time it is waging war against Allah (SWT) and the Prophet (SAW)! Astaghfirullah.

    Do you see now why so many call Ahmadiyya a money-making scheme? For us on the outside you are anything but a pious and islamic organisation.

  12. You have conveniently ignored the post about Ahmadiyya and ribaa. Ahmadiyya is practically waging war against Allah (SWT) and His Messenger (SAW). I would like to hear your rebuttal. And please don’t point to other islamic organisations doing the same; it doesn’t justify Ahmadiyya’s actions.

  13. I always find it funny how through attacking us the ghair ahmadis only serve to strengthen our cause. Eg….

    1- When the tragic incident occurred in our mosques in Lahore where 86 of our brothers were martyred on a personal level from being a very inactive Ahmadi I viewed the incident and was so ashamed that my brothers were giving their lives whilst I sat at home and did nothing that I have become much more active in having the blessing and honor of serving our jama’at. I am also certain from what I have seen and heard that a similar effect was felt in our jama’at worldwide following those tragic events. In this way, despite causing us excessive pain at the loss of our brothers in sisters it in fact increased us in our faith and brought us closer to our blessed community.

    2- When I saw these horrible online sites against our jama’at (they have only really come to my attention over this summer) I was naturally extremely upset. So much so, that I resolved to make my own blog to defend us. It was at this stage that someone pointed out this wonderful site to me and on reading I was extremely pleased that A- some of our brothers/sisters are so eloquently and comprehensively responding to these attacks and that B- I have great hopes that I can see this site inshAllah progressing and becoming a fantastic means for Ahmadis from around the world to communicate with each other on a regular basis and for perhaps less informed Ahmadis like myself to come and learn the answers to the false objections raised against our community. In this way, their starting a website against us has brought me closer to my brothers and sisters worldwide and improved my knowledge and understanding of Ahmadiyyat.

    3- This is a little bit of a flippant/inappropriate remark but up until recently I was very indifferent in my feelings towards my national Amir, simply because I do not know him on a personal level. However, having sadly witnessed the level of foul, personal and unfounded abuse he is subjected to by the opponents of the jama’at I feel extremely warm towards such a person who is serving the jama’at in the face of such obstacles being placed in his path and so now I spend time each day praying for him and that may Allah support and protect him. After all, if he is winding up those clowns over at thecult website to such a degree he must be doing something very right….

    Anyway, may Allah bless all of the efforts in everyone involved in this website and spread the good done on here amongst Ahmadi and non Ahmadi alike. Thank you so much!

  14. I don’t understand how anyone can claim that Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (‘alayhi al-salam) claimed to LITERALLY be the Holy Prophet (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) after reading this.

    It was only by way of zill and buruz (mirror of Divine Love).

    Allah in His Qur’an (Recitation) calls the Prophet Muhammad (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) as al-Siraj al-Munirah (Light Giving Lamp) which is also the word used for the Sun many times in the Qur’an:

    “O Prophet, truly We have sent thee as a Witness, and Bearer of glad tidings, and a Warner, and as a Summoner unto Allah by His command, and as a Lamp that gives bright light.” (al-Qur’an, Surah al-Ahzab, 33:46-47)

    “By the sun and its growing brightness. And by the moon when it comes after (the sun).” (al-Qur’an, Surah al-Shams, 91:2-3)

    The Holy Prophet (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) is therefore the Sun, and the Promised Messiah (‘alayhi al-salam) is the moon, reflecting his light but not creating any light on his own.

    The word “qamar” (full moon) is used for moon here, which comes on the 14th night of the month, and the Promised Messiah (as) appeared in the 14th lunar century after the Sun (Muhammad al-Mustafa [sallAllahu ‘alayhi wa sallam – peace and blessings of Allah be upon him]).

  15. “In case it is asked, if this spiritual station is already occupied by my humble person and the Messiah (son of Mary), what station would remain for our lord and master, the best of Messengers (Seyyid al-Rusul) and the Seal of Prophets (al-Khātam al-Nabiyyeen), the Holy Prophet Muhammad (ṣallAllāhu ʿalayhi wa sallam صلى الله عليه و سلم)? Let it be clear that his is the most exalted and superior station, the sole occupant of which is the Holy Prophet (ṣallAllāhu ʿalayhi wa sallam صلى الله عليه و سلم) —the Perfect Man (al-Insān al-Kāmil الإنسان الكامل) — alone. No one else can even remotely approach its unsurpassing quality—let alone attain it.

    In order to get an idea of the great spiritual station of the Holy Prophet (ṣallAllāhu ʿalayhi wa sallam صلى الله عليه و سلم), it must be pointed out that the stations of love and of close relationship to Allāh in the context of spiritual levels are of three kinds.

    The lowest level which in its own right is exalted enough, is where the flames of Divine love do warm the human heart even to the extent that the resultant warmth sometimes begins to function quite like fire; yet it falls short of being radiant like it. As the flames of Divine love (al-Habb Allāh) fall on love at this level, the warmth generated by these flames may be described as Peace (salām) and Tranquility and sometimes even as Angels (malā’ikah).

    The second level of love has already been described above. At this level, the two loves meet; the flame of Divine love heats up the human heart to the extent that it begins to glow like fire but its flames are not angry or aggressive but only lambent and are described as Ruh al-Quddus (The Holy Spirit).

    At the third level of love, the blazing flames of Divine love fall on the inflammable wick of human love and set it afire, enveloping it in all its parts and ramifications, and transforming it into its complete and perfect manifestation. In this condition, the fire of Divine love not only lends the human heart a kind of glow, but all of a sudden, the entire being (of the recipient) also catches fire; its flames illuminate the environs quite like the bright day. Not a vestige of darkness remains. One’s entire being turns into light, complete with its fiery qualities. This condition which is so ablaze, comes into being with the union of the two loves and is known as Ruhul al-Amin (The Protective Spirit), for it provides immunity against every kind of darkness and is free from any estrangement. Its other name is Shadeed al-Quwwah (Extreme Strength) because the revelational experience it denotes is of the mightiest degree. A mightier revelation is unthinkable. It is also called Dhul Ufuqil A‘la —the master of the loftiest horizon — because it is a manifestation of Divine revelation of the highest order. It is also known as R’a mā R’a (He saw what He saw), for the comprehension of this condition is beyond human ken, imagination, or fancy.

    This super-condition was vouchsafed to the one and only person in the entire world namely the Perfect Man. He alone is the culmination and apex of human excellence. It is in his person that the evolutionary cycle of human potentiality reached absolute perfection. Indeed he is the last point on the higher scale of the extended line of God’s creation and constitutes the absolute pinnacle of all spiritual heights. Divine wisdom initiated the evolutionary process at the lowest level of creation with the meanest of creatures and caused it to attain the highest point, the other name of which is Muhammad — peace and blessings of God be upon him صلى الله عليه و سلم. The name Muhammad (ṣallAllāhu ʿalayhi wa sallam صلى الله عليه و سلم) signifies the most praised one or the one who is the supreme embodiment of all perfection and excellence. Just as the Holy Prophet’s (ṣallAllāhu ʿalayhi wa sallam صلى الله عليه و سلم) innate spiritual station was extremely exalted and so high and lofty, the quality of revelation vouchsafed to him was also very high.

    It is too exalted a station for me or the Messiah (‘Eisa bin Maryam [‘alayhi al-salam]) to attain.

    It is known as the Meeting Point or the point (nuqtah) of Absolute Union. The earlier Prophets who foretold the coming of the Holy Prophet (ṣallAllāhu ʿalayhi wa sallam صلى الله عليه و سلم) envisaged the same station and its hallmark. Indeed it was to this unique station that they chose to refer.

    Furthermore, the spiritual station the Messiah and I share, could figuratively be described as that of being the spiritual son of the Holy Prophet (ṣallAllāhu ʿalayhi wa sallam صلى الله عليه و سلم). His spiritual station is in fact so lofty that the earlier Prophets described the coming of its occupant as if it were the coming of God Himself.”

    – Haḍrat Mirza Ghulām Ahmad مرزا غلام احمد, al-Masih al-Mau’ood wa’l Mahdi al-Mau’ood wa’l Imam al-Akhareen (‘alayhi al-salam عليها السلام) in his book Tau‎ḍih-e-Marām (Elucidation of Objectives)

  16. Jazak Allah. Anything good here is the blessing and mercy of Almighty Allah and all that is wrong is due to my own short-sightedness Please do spread the word and pray that the blog continues to serve a good purpose..

  17. SALLAM
    to all my brothers and sisters .everything you have said concerning
    farhan sahib is compleatly correct, you have said all the things we are well aware
    of, but were not able to put them into words. i am so happy to have read it
    and will inform all ahmadis to read your blog, as it is writen with such honesty, respect,
    truthfulness. you have such intergrity, but of course you are a ahmadi.

  18. Id like to present a few more passages from “A Misconception Removed:

    Thus he who comes to God through this door is clad, by way of Zill, in the same mantle of Prophethood which is the mantle of the Prophethood of Muhammad (sa). As such, his being a Prophet is not a matter for jealously, for he does not derive this status from himself but from the fountain of the Holy Prophet (sa); and, that too, not for his own glory but for the glory and majesty of the Holy Prophet (sa). For this reason, in heaven he is named Muhammad (sa) and Ahmad (sa). Thus the Prophethood of Muhammad (sa,)in the final analysis, returns to Muhammad (sa), albeit by way of Buruz, and to no one else.”

    Also Promised Messiah (as) says:

    All Prophets (as) have continued to believe that a Buruz is a complete reflection of his original, so much so that even their names become identical. Thus, just as it is evident in this context that naming someone Muhammad (sa) and Ahmad (sa), by way of Buruz, does not make two Muhammads or two Ahmads, likewise, addressing someone as ‘Prophet’ or ‘Messenger’—by way of Buruz—does not break the Seal of Khatamun Nabiyyin, for the person of the Buruz has no independent existence. The Prophethood of Muhammad (sa), therefore, remains confined to Muhammad (sa) alone. All Prophets (as) are agreed that Buruz involves no duality, as his status conforms to this Persian verse:

    I have become you and you have become me, I have become the body and you have become the soul; So none should henceforth say, You are one and I another.”

    In conclusion Promised Messiah (as):

    The aim of this discourse is that while my ignorant opponents accuse me of claiming to be a Prophet or Messenger, I myself make no such claim. I am neither a Prophet nor a Messenger as they think. But I am a Prophet and a Messenger in the way that I have just explained. Therefore, false and evil is the thinking of the one who mischievously accuses me of claiming to be a Prophet and Messenger. It is only by way of Buruz that I have been made a Prophet and a Messenger, and it is on this very basis that Allah has repeatedly named me His Prophet and His Messenger, but only by way of Buruz. My own self comes nowhere in between, rather it all belongs to Muhammad Mustafa (sa). Thus it is that I have been called Muhammad (sa) and Ahmad (sa). Hence, Prophethood and Messengership have not been transferred to anyone else. What belonged to Muhammad (sa) remains with Muhammad (sa). On him be blessings and peace.”

    This is a response to Farhan Sahib who tries to imply that Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) meant that he is literally Muhammad (SA). Just read the words of the Promised Messiah (as), in fact the whole book, (Ahmadi Muslims and non Ahmadi Muslims) and you’ll come to realize the loving devotion to Hadhrat Muhammad (SA).

    As the admin has already explained it was Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) duty set by God Almighty to come out to the world and deliver the message of the Holy Prophet (SA). It was not his desire to come out to the world, in fact at a young when he would spend hours at the mosque, and that’s where he (as) preferred. No more.

  19. the problem with brother fahran is that he will only publish responses to his blog that he wants – I have posted many as have others but he does not publish….. Oh and his favourite response is that Ahmadis should go and work for the right wing FOX news in America. However when I pointed out that our Saudi sunni brother is the largest shareholder in Fox news he seems to get a little upset

  20. That blog that Farhan endorses so much is particularly disgusting, with the author often using inappropriate language and her/himself admitting that it was never meant to be “Islamic” in any way but just a gossip blog.

  21. Actually the reference as cited by Farhan Sahib says this with respect to the 6th point,

    ” Problems with extremist leadership can be more difficult to spot. The most tragic cult of the last century was the Rev. Jim Jones’s Peoples Temple, which ended with mass murder and suicide in the jungles of Guyana in 1978.”

    Whereas Farhan Sahib says,

    ” Extreme leadership, such as excessively revering the leader (Impermissibility of disagreeing with Mirza Masroor).”

    Now one could notice the huge difference implied by brother Farhan. The actual reference discussed suicide and murder for the sake or due to the leader, something which ironically follows the ideology of modern Mullahs, particularly in Pakistan and Indonesia, not to say this is the case of every Muslim cleric. Farhan creates ambiguity, possibly just a mistake which we can all fall prey to. What does he mean by extreme leadership?

    By definition ‘revering’ means deep respect, so extremely revering should come to mean ‘extremely deep respect’. Well, Farhan Sahib if you call yourself a devout Muslim do you have extreme deep respect for the Holy Prophet Muhammad (SA)? If yes then you must be a member of a cult. If no then I can say no more. We Ahmadis love the Prophets and their rightful successors and do respect them all extremely deeply. Infact we should respect founders of all faiths, whether they were true or not for the sake of harmony. If that should identify me as a cultee, so be it.

  22. Salam

    Jazak Allah and as usual great posts. Totally agree with you that thecult forum and the new confessions forum are getting worse and worse, Farhan at least opts for what he thinks is important theological discussions, yet at the same time creates baseless links with history and of course backs people who insult and abuse the Jamaat, yet still claims to love us etc.

    You may also notice that 80-90% of the original cult audience have left his forum and gone to the gossip queen confessions forum, thus showing the immaturity and lack of Islamic interest in these people. I am writing this here because II raised this to Farhan in his blog, but I think like many other Ahmadis, he does not approve our posts, thus trying to show that we have no answers.

    Jazak Allah


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