Unfortunately, my experience with Deenport has been much less enlightening – more stifling, and restrictive.
Some Deenport forum members would refrain from takfir of me and of ahmadi muslims, whereas others would use filthy language which would be heard only in unmentionable places around the backstreets of capital cities.
Deenport’s standard T’s & C’s (see here) make no mention of any requirements stipulating that one who signs up to use the forum need necessarily be from a certain group, sect, or hold certain beliefs, although throughout the posts and links, one find much mention of affiliation with ahl-al-sunnah wa-al-jama’ah – an umbrella-like denomination of sunni islam that is as hard to define or claim affiliation with nowadays as it is to rebut someone’s claim to it.
The surprising element is this: on the one hand, they (many of Deenport’s forum members) rant and rave about the traditional interpretations of Islam – which in it’s own place is all well and good – and so it should be – but then they supplement this with their own interpretations on how and when to do takfir, whereas our most learned scholars were so careful in appending kufr upon anyone, and would advise against it in all but the most heinous and explicit blasphemy against the prophet which involved rejection of, or attributing lying to the Prophet (saw), na’udhubillah.
Their blinded vision is (ironically) manifest when they then link to sites such as http://www.irshad.org, which is run out of a glorified workshop akin to a roadside madrassa in the dregs of Pakistan. Where goes taking traditional Islam from the traditionalists now?
It seems as though I have no place on Deenport, and neither does any other muslim who wants to move away from the Takfiri mentality which many of them have inherited. Until such a time as the Brit-Pak muslims on Deenport rid themselves of the baggage of takfir they have been impregnated with by their forefathers who brought the Maududian and Deo-Barelwi takfir mentality to the shores of the UK, their generations will also follow in their footsteps.
This is amply evident in the fact that many of the forum users who are in their mid-30′s or 40′s and have children will most probably be imparting this same takfiri mentality to their children.
Initially, I thought Deenport was a different forum which allowed valid differences of opinions and whose members were slightly more mature and well-read in Islam than at other forums. Whilst this is true of some on the forum, the majority of those who responded to my posts were rude, used vile language, and are quite frankly a shame to British and global Islam. They preach the Islam of the Best of Creation (saw) and the beloved (saw) of Allah and they display such menacing language and habits that many non-muslims exceed them in piety, and in doing so they display to the world that Islam has little to offer, wa na’udhubillah minhum.
As they have deleted my posts, I had luckily saved my posts and reproduce them here for readers to take benefit from.
Also, in future, I will respond to Posts on Deenport, but on my own blog, as my input is clearly not wanted by the majority of respondents to my posts (by the likes of Arshad Mahmood and Suleiman al-Muslim Bobat, et al), but those who are pure hearted, whilst they may differ with my beliefs and opinions, may find benefit from them.
Assalaamu ‘alaykum wa RahmatAlalhe ta’ala wa barakatuhuSome of the discourse in this forum has displayed exactly why the Muslim community (worldwide) is in the sad state it is.
At the outset, as an Ahmadi Muslim (‘Ahmadi Muslim’ – just in case you didn’t get it the first time), it is sad for me, but perhaps not surprising, that those that are sincere will be pressurised and slandered.
What the links in this thread did not explain was that the mosque to which the head of State of Israel was ‘invited’ was in Haifa, Israel. And what happened? he came, he ate Halal food, he was made to listen to verses recited from the Glorious Qur’an, and was hosted at the Mosque as the head of State.
Those who have not recited the Qur’an with due attention recently will have forgotten that many of the Prophets of the past, including Hadrat Ibrahim (as), Musa (as) and many others were subjects of worldly rulers and kingship and had to deal with them in ways which were built upon the edifice of Hikmah, as opposed to responding in kind, whilst at times, making their protestations heard.
Ahmadis, following the instructions of the Khalifa of Hadrat Masih-e-Ma’uud wa Mahdi al-Ma’hud, respond as we see fit to the injustices of our time.
I shouldn’t need to remind our erstwhile bretheren who were around in those days that it was a fellow Ahmadi Muslim who, in the UN, using his post to the most effective means possible, as the first foreign minister of Pakistan, then as plenipotentiary to the UN, then as an Advocate in the UN General Assembly and then as the President of the UN General Assembly, advocated against the Israelis for their occupation of Palestinian land and homes, and was commended by the majority of Arab statesman and Muslim leaders of his time. But we conveniently omit (or commit ‘kufr’ in the sense of covering – see any decent classical arabic lexicon) this when we post the populist and polemical youtube links as an attempted theological or doctrinal dalil, as in this thread.
Thus accusations like those above of Ahmadi Muslims being the cause of the destruction of Pakistan are just so cowardly and they show absolute ignorance and a ‘brush under the carpet’ kind of approach.
No Ahmadi has ever given a fatwa of death of a sunni, shi’i or any other muslim, or non-muslim. Yet many Sunni and Shi’i and other scholars tend to do so freely.
Talib has advised wisely about reading the book by Friedmann, and I think it is an excellent wake-up call for those muftis amongst us who are so able in our theology and law that we can slander people with ‘Kufr’ and put aside for a moment the classical works which dictate the ahkam of the declarations of kufr on one who claims to be a Muslim. Imam al-Ghazali’s Munqidh should suffice as a primer on this topic and adequately forewarns of those who blindly follow scholars in jumping on the bandwagons of kufr – because it doesn’t stop there – just as Talib said, the next step is to shoot the ‘kuffar’ whilst they kneel in the 2nd raka’at of the salat al-Jumu’ah – and not to stop there either – but then to propagate this as a worthy – nay – heavenly action!
What fiqh, what sunnah, actually, how DARE anyone append this kind of action to the Noblest of creation (saw). And don’t tell me the perpetrators aren’t sunnis, they’re wahhabis – they claimed to be from the Majlis Tahaffuz-e-khatme Nubuwwat and also part of the Taliban in Pakistan – but those arrested said they were acting on fatawa (what irony!) of their muftis.
Don’t you guys think that it is highly PROBLEMATIC that the same kind of justifications of kufr and fatawa of wajib-ul-qatl given by the perpetrators of the attacks on the two ahmadi mosques in Lahore are synonymous to the reactions and opinions regarding the ‘muslim-ness’ of Ahmadis on this forum, by supposedly educated and well-read muslims – and by this I mean well-read in Islam…???
For a fresh look on the response of Ahmadis to this barbaric manipulation of pure Islam, see here for the Khutbah of the Imam of the Jama’at, translated in English:and in Arabic: http://www.islamahmadiyya.net/pdf/khutba_4-6-2010.pdf
Post 2: First Irish Imam
I wrote the original post in this thread, to which some responses were received (before it was deleted by the ‘Self-imposed Islam Censorship Police – maybe these guys have worked with the Iranian Censorship police??) stating that the first Irish Imam (link above) was a ‘Qadiyani’ and therefore they slandered him and Ahmadi-Muslims to be ‘kuffar’, na’udhubillah
Yes – more sectarianism!! You guys never learn!
If there is one thing history should teach us (especially those who have written the posts above) is that the kafirisation of Ahmadi muslims has only led to their growth and expansion.
The muslims in Ireland are only too well aware of the Ahmadiyya jama’at – that has not stopped muslims in Ireland from opposing the jama’at, arguing against the jama’at, and in many cases, ultimately joining the jama’at.
I have been to Dublin and Galway many times to on trips to spread Islam and many muslims know of the Ahmadiyya Jama’at – those who are sincere see, hear and know of nothing other than Islam from us.
I make yet another call for maturity, plurality and wisdom in debate amongst muslims. The takfir prevalent amongst muslim schools of thought has to stop – the deobandi and barelwi conflicts and the resultant takfir from either side, and takfir of chakralwis, sufis, wahhabis, ne-salafis, mu’tazilis, etc. Is this really the Islam we have to offer the 21st century world?
Everyone says, read Shaykh fulan’s article, or book, or hear his/her lecture…when will we start to live the Naseeha that we are so quick to insert html links to???
Qaala rasulAllah (saw): ‘al-deenu NaseeHah’ – Deen is sincere advice.